Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)

Most people who have sick fantasies don't act on them. TF surrounded the perverts with children and Berg (God's prophet) told them it was ok to sexually abuse them.

BTW, I don't doubt that sexual abuse has stopped. There are other forms of abuse though. I never suffered sexual abuse, but I did suffer physical, psychological, and emotional abuse. The Family as we used to know it is dead. They've watered everything down to the point where they're basically a club of misguided members. Now there is hardly a difference between most of TF members and Christian "systemites", except that some still hold dumbass beliefs and you often still find two families living in the same house. The whole thing that held TF together was their isolation from "the system", the "us against the world" mentality. Now that is gone, and it's all about being accepted and blending in and putting your children through school and getting a job. Seriously, once Maria and Peter die there will be NOTHING left of TF. Maybe some of the business aspects will remain for the few FGAs left - there will still be the centers producing CDs and calenders to sell and stuff like that - but TF will be dead.

Personally, I would absolutely NOT have wanted to be born into TF. Is playing some stupid ass game the only alternative to "Word time"? How about studying in order to have a proper chance at life, or playing with your friends, experiencing life as a child should instead of being brought up to be an "endtime soldier" and basing all your actions and decisions in life on the assumption that by the time you're an adult it will be the Endtime and you'll be zapping the enemies or calling on some keys to work magic? My whole childhood was a fucking waste of time, filling my head with garbage, studying some ancient religious text and the ramblings of a drunkard.

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)


I must be behind the times. I thought Zerby was still in charge or at least a member in good standing of TFI. When did she get kicked out?

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)


How do you know this is true or that it is true for everyone in your generation? Does TFI publish a statistics on number of excommunications and police reports? Are you basing this statement on personal knowledge or simply repeating TFI's public relations claim?

Since 2004 I have consulted on three cases involving abuse allegations by underage girls in three different countries. The accused was excommunicated in only one case, and that was a temporary or partial excommunication. To my knowledge, there were no police reports made in any of the cases. From my limited perspective, the way TFI leadership appears to handle abuse allegations is much the same as how the Roman Catholic hierarchy handles similar problems: the accused is temporarily suspended and/or transferred elsewhere, the victim is counseled (pressured) to forgive, forget, and forgo involving the police or protective services.

I have nothing to gain by telling you this, except perhaps the satisfaction of knowing that you can no longer be willfully ignorant of unpleasant truths that are routinely covered up by leadership.

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
I find it amazing to hear from you. As a former member of TFI, I have heard much about your court case, and have been curious to where you are and what you are doing.

I find this very interesting. You are admitting that Berg had a perverted pleasure. If you have read any purged MO letters (xfamily.org has documented them extensively), you will find your belief is completely correct. However, you will also find that he has not renounced any of those beliefs directly, nor has he taken full responsibility for them and the sexual abuse they caused. The most we have heard is an ambiguous 'I disown any teachings that may have given the assumption that I promoted child sex' while never highlighting his previous comments and explain why he said what he did directly promote sexual activity for children, and why he, as a prophet of God could make such a gross error such as assuming that children can safely engage in sexual relationships with adults. Their apology is incomplete.
If Berg had perverted tastes, how could he have been anointed to such a degree? You don't have to be perfect to have the anointing of God on you, but I believe that God generally doesn't choose to work through child molesters, or those who support and condone such acts, while never completely recanting them. If Berg is incorrect, than how correct can Maria and Peter be, who were chosen by this leader with (your words, not mine) 'perverted tastes'


I hope you don't get offended if I mention that you are almost a reflection of myself a couple of years ago. I understand where you are coming from, and I have tried to understand where the people on this site are coming from.
You and I were born in the 1990s and as such, have not experienced any sexual abuse. The fact that the abused are still functioning members of society is an amazing feat on their part. Some of the abused (not just Ricky, there are many suicides, if you require proof, visit xfamily.org and run a search), unfortunately, committed suicide due to the abuse they have suffered. It's tragic. My point is that sexual abuse has had lasting and harmful affects. As a psychology student, I can tell you that screwy things in your past can fvck you up very thoroughly. The reason you see hate on this site is because of the damage the abused have received. Instead of labeling this a hate website, try to see their point of view, and why they are so hateful. People don't just hate for no reason. Ricky didn't murder Smith for no reason. Hate is caused by extensive damage to oneself, or his/her loved ones.
It's true that TFI is a much more safe now then it was before the Reboot. However, from 1986-2009 (when the changes started), I can't honestly say that it was. I understand that it may seem like one. However, the amount of spiritual and psychological manipulation is quite astounding, if you are willing to see it for what it is. I won't blame you if you refuse to do so, I refused the same for a long time. Instead of providing evidence, I would recommend http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/No_Regrets . I realize that your first reaction is to avoid such material, but if you truly wish to see the full picture, then you should read it. Knowledge and information should be free, and nobody has the right to attempt to restrict your access to anything that may cause you to see the world from a more correct perspective. He may be wrong, and you may have the sufficient arguments to batter down his reasoning. He explains a lot.



God bless you all, I hope in reading this that you can all see How the family has changed and is now a great place to be in and has been for a long time, and to anyone who was abused by a member of the COG or TFI, you have my deepest sympathies and I'm sorry, but that is in no way what the family is about, nor is it "a cult" anymore it is a worldwide ORGANISATION, the word "cult" makes me pissed off... TFI is no more a cult then members of the AA.
-Sam[/quote]
I understand why the word cult would piss you off. I'm assuming the AA is Alcohols Anonymous. Since the reboot, you are correct in stating TFI is not a cult. Unfortunately, before the Reboot, TFI was still a New Religious Movement with an exclusive culture, which is a nicer word for a cult. AA is an organization meant to help people, but it does not decide its volunteers' beliefs.

Best of Luck.

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
Wow, too much effort to retort to everyone who's been commenting, and like I said I don't want to argue... Very interesting to hear people's opinions and I will check up every now and then to see If anyone has anything else interesting to say, I'm an extremely opened minded individual and I like to hear all sides of every story. Also FYI, any and all information I stated in my post was personal opinion or from personal experience, I've been to family homes in South America, Africa and all over europe so I've seen quite a few ends of the spectrum so to speak, but ofcourse I don't know it all.
All the best Sam...
(Thanks to the last person "guest" who commented, you seem to be very insightful and not overly zealous one way or another, thats always apreciated and makes me more likely to listen to you.)

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
Ahh, you liked my post. Thanks ;-).
I'm interested in meeting people from around the world, expanding my views (on life, generally), and discussing experiences etc. Growing up in the same group during the same time gives us a lot in common. If you're interested, you can contact me at kaleidoscope_walrus(at)hotmail.com

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
Rejecting The Family and rejecting God's Word are worlds apart, so if the man states he's glad he didn't waste time with computer games or whatever I see his point. I'm not going to cry one bit that I was hoodwinked for 28 years...so The Family was a false way, well living for sin and the world is a false way too. I got out of TF, but I didn't get Jesus out of me...perhaps in the future I'll post how scriptural speaking Berg was false...you know how he twisted verses etc. For instance Jesus fulfilling the law and so now we can have intercourse with whosoever, what obvious nonsense. Yes, Jesus completed the law....he was perfect, and knew no sin....therefore the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in Him. Now, if we are in Christ we have also fulfilled the law because of His actions. The law is holy, the law is spiritual, and we establish the law by faith. Rm 3:31, 7:21, 8:14. It's hard to put in just a few words, but perhaps you see the point.

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
I am not sure what you mean about living for sin and the world, but glorifying any falsehood is a "sin" in my book - at least it is a sin to one's self.

Two good reads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus

Reading the books mentioned in the links can provoke many thoughts.

And those are not the only ones.

There is a reason why COG/TF restricted our reading.

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
Thanks to those 2 other replies, both interesting, thank you for your views and everything you say helps I like to learn I liek to find everything new I can about TFI, but FYI I know most if not all of Berg's transgressions and I have come to terms with how the family was, but thats not how It is today, all the literature that comes out I now like so if people could talk more about the current aspect of the past please Thank you kaleidoscope_walrus(at)hotmail.com I will get in touch.

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
Very neat to read a comment from you Sam That super long judgment (the judgment of Lord Justice Ward) was one of the things i read recently when starting on my own personal journey of discovery about TFI and my what my personal beliefs are going to be from now on i agree that it made it difficult for me to initially process these forums (and i still haven't read through most of them ) that there's a lot of anger in them...but on the other hand it's also true that if so many people are angry it's probably not without cause.

Anyways, what i wanted to say was something that i've discovered recently, and it's that re-evaluating TFI isn't all about it's past...what's more important is the beliefs and whether or not they're really true and good to live by, or are the result of a false prophet and need to be 'unlearned.' At least that's what's more relevant for me right now.

My first realization was that I had never let myself even visit this site (or other sites with non-positive information about tfi) for fear of losing my faith, but really, what faith is it that will be 'lost' if i read information, or if you don't read re-enforcing information and literature often enough? And then when i did read information that wasn't positive about tfi or david berg, i never even considered that it could be true or tried to read it without bias. And on top of it, I had tried all these years to avoid 'doubt' and not 'entertain the lies of the devil,' to the point that if i even thought about anything not-positive about tfi i felt guilty and tried to stop right away. And it struck me that it's an awful lot like a sign of being strongly (possibly self) mentally conditioned to not allow yourself to think certain things, or read certain things, because they'll cause 'doubt.' Basically it's self-censoring against any possible negative information... probably most people aren't that way and it's most likely just because i was kinda a 'fanatic' for the family's beliefs and so on, but anyways it set off warning lights.

So then I read the judgment about your case because it was an official judgment that i figured would be less biased than personal accounts, and that's when i realized that david berg was actually a pedophile and into incest (which it turns out is actually specifically mentioned in the Bible and forbidden, but in "the Devil Hates Sex" David Berg and Maria say that it's not specifically forbidden in the Bible, so I only just figured out that he was actually going against basic Bible teachings) and had actually encouraged those things in the family in the past. That took me by surprise because i'd never thought that and always respected and (can i say that) 'loved' him. I remember day dreaming about being asked to help do his laundry when i was a kid and feeling that that would be quite the honor So anyways, i spent some time coming to grips with the family's past and realizing who david berg really was (the guy whose teachings i based my entire life around and who i'd believed was the prophet of the end) and that maria and peter were right there with him when he was doing all this stuff, so they're not innocent either. And would the real prophet of the end, or any real prophet of God, and his anointed successor(s) really be guilty of those things, or of condoning and going along with them (in the case of Maria)? I know king David killed Uriah but he repented, DB never did...he was a drunk until he died from what I could figure out, and I never even heard about Mene's story from tfi until i went and read it on this site...and i'd say what he did to her one of the worst things he did in his personal home life. The only record of it, from tfi's side, are the MLs of him slapping her around and stuff....and what does it matter if she's supposed to have been crazy...she was only a young teenager. (Just as an example, and I first learned about Mene from the judgment of your case btw )

After that, what I actually really wanted to say, was that I realized that even more important (more relevant to me that is...i was also never abused that way and it's a long ways in the past in a way) is the beliefs that I learned and preached in tfi. Basically I realized that if what i was teaching people (which I did actively, the 12FS, 12BR, CNX, etc) is wrong or actually contrary to real Biblical teachings, I'm "the least in the kingdom of heaven." I still consider myself a Christian and I want to be a Christian in the future, so my "journey" developed into mainly study of the Bible and culling out what was wrong, incorrect or just plain ungodly according to the Bible and Jesus' teachings, and what is true. I've found that some very basic elements of family beliefs are against the Bible actually and david berg twisted verses a lot to support his teachings and now, possibly from good intentions and simply by habit, ws and maria have done the same with the loving Jesus rev, the keys, hearing from spirit helpers, etc. It turns out that hearing from spirit helpers, as one example, is against what even Jesus taught and is very wrong Biblically, so I've actually been into witchcraft according to Biblical definitions and, get this, 'necromancy.' And to top it off, I taught kids that in devotions and taught my 'sheep' that since my teen years.

So even though the abuse committed in tfi history may not seem relevant to you and you might not feel the need to re-examine it, etc. as a Christian you should examine for yourself whether your beliefs and "these things be so"...not just by using the word basics or other Family produced bible study helps. I've learned that even the categories we've divided the verses into in the memory book and word basics actually 'twist' the meaning of different verses that if you read the context, are referring to a totally different subject. it's wierd. So anyways, that's my rather rambling 'two cents'

I think tfi is going to die out sooner or later because God is God and is in control and he always eventually sets things right. You know the whole "if this work be of God..." concept. But for you and me and every other current member (i just canceled my tfi portal membership a month or so ago all there is really right now to being a member) i think sooner or later we'll all need to come to grips with some basic truths that were twisted about God, Jesus, Christianity, the Bible, etc. by david berg especially, and it's not easy to come to do. I came that close to throwing Christianity out all together because picking out what's true and what's not from my belief system was so daunting. Last month I found a small church actually and started visiting them...was really hard because its part of my makeup right now to feel very nervous around 'church members' and i felt very uncomfortable at first. But i got over it and they're actually pretty accepting and i've even started making friends...something which i never managed very well in tfi even though i practiced the lol so i should have had lots of unity, etc.

Oh, and even more so, I've been researching my beliefs online. A good starting point (that my hubby and I are reading through right now) is this site: http://makestraightpaths.com/about_make_straight_paths.htm I'd recommend it to anyone because it's thorough, the guy knows what he's talking about and doesn't 'hate' on tfi members but focuses on what's true and what isn't.

Sorry this is so long its the first time i've actually said anything online about this, and i'm glad it anonymous because it really is something i'd like to put behind me as soon as possible Just might take a little while to get things figured out and straightened out, figure out where to go from here, etc. Lots to think about.

Take care Sam...me out

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
Wow alot to ingest there, Thanks so much for the feedback I have to say though that i'm not familiar with "Mene" and that story so if you could send me a link to my E-mail, (I will E-mail you just now so you can get my addy.) I agree with pretty much all you're saying, thats how I get my christian beleifs, I don't just blindly follow a leader any more. And for the most part I have renounced Berg because of the fact that he was a sex crazed incestual pedophile... However ofcourse some of his "teachings" are in line with the Bible and ring true with me but from now on I' much more guarded when absorbing information as Alot of people twist facts, or make oppinions apear to be solid facts... Thank you for your insight and oppinion! It appears we have alot in common.
Take care,
Sam

Re: Child custody case 1992 (I am the child)
i don't have your email so i'll just post it here You'll figure things out i think...its not easy though when you actually start realizing how many things aren't biblical...just don't get too depressed You'll get through it.

actually i initially read about Mene from the judgment about you, she was a witness(http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Judgment_of_Lord_Justice_Ward), but then there's what she said about herself (http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Merry%27s_Story), what Ricky said about her (http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Life_with_Grandpa_-_the_Mene_Story) and a pretty well written account here (http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/No_Regrets#MENE.2C_MENE.2C_TEKEL_UPHARSIN).

her story meant a lot to me cuz she's an example from bergs personal home and also because maria and peter were not just witnesses to what was going on but actually went along with it. and then maria wrote those letters about how she was so terrible and crazy and that nobody should listen to anything she said.

I hope you figure things out.... square things away and all.
hugs, me

I am Samuel David Turle,

>> HI Samuel

I was The child in the child custody court case, In which the family was accused of everything done in the past and Justice Ward gave his decision that TFI (formerly COG) Had issues in the past, but is now a safe enviornment to raise a child and all practices of abuse have been stopped.

>>I don't know where you lived (perhaps people were just damn careful with you (seeing that you were the showcase child)), but I was well abused a good ten years after that verdict. I can state, in all honesty the fact that TFI was not a "fully" changed place and not always a safe place to raise your children, as I experienced personally.

I do not deny that Berg had some issues as did some of the other "shepards" and some stuff did go on that should not have, but to my knowledge all instances of any form of abuse have been taken care of individually and dealt with by TFI and or the police.

>> I know of two cases where abusers were in fact not punished (aka excommunicated), and to this day remain active in current TFI circles.

However the Family now has sustained all the good aspects and doctorines that we all to this day belive, and purged all the negative and downright horrible things that used to happen.

>> There were many "discontinued" doctrines, clearly stated in "the reboot" series, which depicted a very closed community mentality. There were even issues that in 2010 remained unchanged. As a result of these "good aspects", many (over 100) ex-member SGA's have committed suicide as they simply could not cope with the world on the outside.

Because of that I am a proud member of TFI to this day and I can say that I had a wonderful upbringing in The Family and I am proud of what it has turned into. Everything that has happened in the past IS THE PAST, and again to my knowledge allmost all of the abuse was during the COG times, and TFI is what I like to concider the version that has taken all the good and kicked out all the shit, as such I want everyone to know that any form of "abuse" was not a practised doctorine within the COG, it was Berg and other leaders who abused their positions of power to forfill their own perverted plesures.

>> Have you ever heard the saying "the abused become the abusers" or "the apple never falls far from the tree" or "by their fruits ye shall know them"? I am actually quite ashamed of the surroundings in which I grew up in. With little or no education, the inconceivable amounts of indoctrination that kept my faith alive all those years, the group image that I was fed, that what I was doing all those years, the endtime, witnessing, the souls, the busking for weeks on end, the bad food, the provisioned clothes, the silence restriction, the public corporal punishment throughout my entire childhood, the sexual abuse of my friends, all of which helped to make me have a less then sufficient image of myself and my accomplishments today.

I don't want to argue with anyone here, my only purpose in writing this is that I see a hate website, and I have no doubt that a lot of people who visited this site were at some point abused my members of the COG, but I want to point out is that it was because the abuser was fucked up... That person would probably have gone on and abused people even if he or she had never met the COG, a real pervert would use anything as an excuse or justification of their actions. The Family today is a wonderful and safe enviornment for all it's members and any instances of abuse, sexual or otherwise, are dealt with very seriously and offenders are excommunicated from family circles and the instances reported to the poilce.

I would not have had my life any other way then a family upbringing, I'm glad that as a child I had "Word time" instead of spending hours a day killing zombies in some stupid ass playstation game, and I've had so many opportunities to meet people with interesting talents and skills which I've been able to pick up on and enrich my life

>> One word: denial
>> Second word: Delusional

>> As in; you must be in denial, or at the very least delusional to state that by changing the "policy" with which a pedophile is dealt with, stops a pedo from getting his kicks while looking at little girls...(I know this because my dad is one). The only thing TFI policy change did, was make the pedos go a little deeper undercover. By excommunicating all those pedos in the past 40 years, just dump the scumb of the earth onto good, unwitting suburban neighborhoods, never to report the issue to the authorities,just to let them continue their sadistic passion.

God bless you all, I hope in reading this that you can all see How the family has changed and is now a great place to be in and has been for a long time, and to anyone who was abused by a member of the COG or TFI, you have my deepest sympathies and I'm sorry, but that is in no way what the family is about, nor is it "a cult" anymore it is a worldwide ORGANISATION, the word "cult" makes me pissed off... TFI is no more a cult then members of the AA.

>>The AA is as much a cult of self help, as is TFI a cult of induced schizophrenia. A Cult is also an organisation, just as the Mafia or Yakuza are a criminal association, organized by its members.

>>A wise man once said "know what you are so that others cant use it to hurt you". My advice to you is know where you came from (a cult), get on with life (learn something more useful then the "selfhelp" bag of bullshit tricks), and stop calling a historical documentation of a cults abusive "hate". It is factual evidence people post here, so that cheap scumbag cheats cant do the same thing twice. If you don't like our freedom to state the facts, perhaps you should try being honest with yourself and listening to a few of your friends and family...see then what kind of shit they all went through at the hand of TFI. Perhaps then you will see that you hate "factual evidence" because you are hiding something from yourself.

I`m glad yo`re happy about your life and that you weren`t abused. Seriously. This site however is where people get help who were seriously abused. I was in the Family for 30 years from 1977 to 2011 so I know more than most about the Family. I also have an understanding now that I am out of the Family about what a cult it was and the damage it did to me. My children suffer to this day from the abuse they received. Some of my friends children have died from drug abuse, been imprisonned, committed suicide. In the Family that was considered a result of being out of God`s Will or taking on negative influences. The fact is that one single incident of sexual abuse can cause devastating effects for life, let alone repeated abuse. The problem was David was a pedophile and sexual pervert. Once you realise that and you do , it`s only a matter of time before you lose faith in the organisation he created. There is also so much good in the witnessing and Christian principles so I wrote a post about don`t throw out the baby with the bath water. I know in the Family we didn`t like the word "cult" but it was. I remember in a meeting mentioning something in a letter I didn`t agree with. It was a minor point but I was jumped on. Cults don`t allow for difference of opinion and an open mind. Now of course there is more openness but until the reboot the Family was a cult.

Good comment!

Good comments so far. Samuel I would only add that you appear to have been very lucky in your experience and thanks to your grandmother, lived a very sheltered and protected life with regular supervision from government authorities to ensure that. Had you lived the experiences us older members did you would not have the same opinion. I have made peace with my past and part of that was mainly down to publishing my book recounting not only my experience in the cult but the very long and painful road to recovery.
Each to their own though. TFI is now more a church/humanitarian organisation so yes it is probably a decent place to be these days but it certainly was not up until about 1995 when they broke up the combo homes. I think what made us angry for so long was that those abusers were never punished...by law or by the group who were fully aware of what was occuring in their homes. Some of them are still part of TFI which shows that they will always cover up for them. Perhaps if you read my book you would gain more of an understanding of what went on before you were even born.
Regards
Natalie Sauret

Why put so much emphasis on sexual abuse?
And why compare our upbringing to the worst case scenario in "the system"?

If someone is happy in the Family then so be it. Blessed are the blind, which are lead by the blind and oblivious to the troubles of a free soul.

I was not - to my memory - sexually abused. And rarely physically abused because I was a good little soldier - an occasional mouth washing with soap, spanking in front of the group or the promise of a spanking, leaving my axious and scared for 6 hours.... watching my brothers punished daily is another thing.

In any case, my point is that sexual abuse is really not the only issue in that cult.
The reason we (the backsliders) run to drugs, self-destructive behaviour & relationships, throw ourselves into careers and potentially choose suicide is because our subconscious has been manipulated at an age that makes it near impossible to remedy.
We have no self-worth, so self-defence, no individuality. And no sense of purpose.

We are not in the Family because there we have no freedom - of belief, sexuality, opinions.... to name a few.

You say that ALL the above are no longer the case in this "oh so revolutionised missionary group", but you will have to forgive us that we don´t believe it for one second.

Instead of re-telling all the stories we already know - nothing against a bit of support group assistance - can someone offer a more substantial contact point or helpline for the psychological abuse we experienced.

I live in a big city with at least 20 former SGAs and believe me when I say that every one of them have different problems coping and can use some professional help.

Of course thanks to our brainwashing, admitting that we need help is a selfish thing which most would rather deny and ignore. So it should be easily accessible and to the point.....it´s a bit confusing here

Thanks