Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
Joseph: I do not wish to get into a debate with you, but I must point out nonsense whenever I find it. It is one thing to claim supernatural abilities and it is quite another to claim your supernatural abilities can interact with the natural/physical world (e.g., your claim of being able to move objects with just your mind). I am sure there are a lot of delusional, yet sincere people out there who really think they have supernatural abilities. However, with people making your claims, I usually find them to be frauds and know that they are.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." --Marcello Truzzi

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
Joseph:

Unlike Thorwald, I'm not interested in debating whether you can actually do what you claim. However, it would seem to me that if you have acquired some supernatural, psychic abilities from God, then the source of those powers would have revealed to you that I am a sister, not a brother. I know it's a minor thing to confuse men with women these days.

The reason I originally suggested you might not be skating on both blades has very little to do with whether or not I believe you have supernatural power to move objects with your mind. I'm a practical sort of person, and I questioned whether you've taken the time to get to know the people who run this website and post here. If you had, you'd recognize that your offer to teach PK is a waste of time. Skeptics abound here (note Thorwald's response), and they aren't going to be convinced of your claims through bulletin board posts.

Finally, you talked about the theology of PK, but you didn't answer the question I raised in my second post. I think it is you who missed my point. While I would love to have the power to heal the sick, the only thing I am certain I can actually do is visit them and provide supportive care. (I'm a medical social worker.) If a sick person is miraculously healed because I've laid on hands and prayed, I would would be delighted. Nevertheless, such a miraculous event would not occur because I have the power to will it into reality, but because God chose to have mercy and relieve human suffering through supernatural means. In the spirit of Phil. 2:6, I can claim no power to effect the mystery of God at work in the world.

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
I once saw a lady cut in half on a stage. It sure "looked" like she had been, but she showed up again after the act was over. I know some card tricks that temporarily dazzle the mind, but they are tricks.

Sorry I am so "spiritually comatose" to you but I have had plenty of experience with claims that can't or won't be backed up, and a "live demo" will not suffice for me unless it is part of a controlled test.

But there is an infamous ex-COG we know of, banned from this site, who believes that Criss Angel really walks on water and can levitate. He also believes that he himself will be able to fly one day and make fire come out of his mouth. Yes, really he does. Here is his email addy: [email protected]. It's OK, he plasters it all over the internet although he might be a little suspicious of you when you tell him you got his name from me. But he will probably be interested in your "gift". Give it a try.

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!


Actually, if you re-read my post, I explicitly stated: "I do not wish to get into a debate with you, but I must point out nonsense whenever I find it". (emphasis added)

However, this might be a bit of fun and liven up the forum, so...



Many times. I was forced to memorize hundreds (maybe even thousands) of verses, as I was born-and-raised in the COG/TFI cult.



Sorry, but I don't believe in a "spiritual" world, so there is no "coma" for me to wake up from. I also do not believe in "faith", so it is not "oh ye of little faith", for me, it is "oh ye with zero faith".



Of course cavemen (or even someone from a few hundred years ago) would find just about everything in our modern world to be "extraordinary" (and many would, wrongly, attribute it to the supernatural). As Arthur C. Clake notes, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

My point was that if we were to bring one of these cavemen into our present and explain to them how it works, allow them to touch the airplane, take a ride in one, etc., etc., they would have all the "proof" they need that it is a very physical object and that there was nothing supernatural about it. Here the "extraordinary claim" (i.e., we can make a heavier-than-air object fly) is backed up by the "extraordinary proof" (i.e., you can touch it and take a ride in it). This is the world of difference between what you claim and what we can test.

Obviously we are making discoveries all the time. I would be a fool to rule anything out (and I don't). All I am asking is for anyone making "extraordinary claims" to back them up with "extraordinary proof". There is nothing in my mind that is "made up" and I am always happy to have my beliefs challenged. That is the difference between me and a religious person: I will gladly admit I am wrong and don't know the answer. It is the religious person who doesn't wish to be "confused by the facts".

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
offer expires 11/17/2009 at 9:00 pm pst

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
This offer has now officially expired.

The saddest words in the human language are: "if I only had..."

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
Thorwald: Not to parse meanings, but pointing out nonsense is an invitation to debate.

Joseph: When I use words like "crazy" and "not skating on both blades," I'm not speaking as a medical professional. Those were just off-the-cuff impressions of your communication coming from Jane the Net Citizen. If I were speaking as a psychiatric social worker, I would have used the term "fixed delusion" to characterize a persistent, difficult-to-alter belief that is fanciful at best. It's fortunate that Moving On no longer exists, because if you had posted your offer to teach PK there, the people who frequented that site would have ripped you a new asshole with their ridicule.

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!


If thats really what you want to do you don't really need powers to do that. Although I can think of several ways to use this power for these lame means. If it's powerful enough you could:
send the contents of a WalMart warehouse to starving naked kids in Africa
Build 1000 tents simultaneously in under 5 seconds. repeat x {amount of homeless people in the world}
No need to visit the sick, bring the sick to you with your mind, same goes for prisoners though I would advise against letting them out of their cells.
Dig graves using nothing but willpower and awesomeness.
The other things don't require any particular gift or talent but you could still comfort the grieving by say juggling a million ferrets...on one hand. All it takes is a little creativity.
If you have the ability and mental control it takes to even move a cup across a desk, I think it's safe to say that you will not lose your shit when people call you an asshole.


On a minor note, PK is a lame superpower. Now MIND CONTROL... that's really something... And you don't even need to take a course, all you need are creativity, an ounce of crazy, a pinch of megalomania and a dozen saps to do your bidding.

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
Hi Joseph,
I have a few questions for you, I don't want discount your claims through logical reasoning, that would be pretty simple and I don't believe that science can account for everything that is possible. However your own reasoning cast a lot of doubt on your claims.

Why are you so against some sort of test as mentioned with the Randi thing. You champion a test that tries to scientifically prove the power of prayer, how is that any different? A successful TK test would prove your faith and provide the world with the same faith. Your money excuse doesn't hold up, refuse the money or give it to the poor, hungry homeless etc. If you think about it hypothetically, this could do the world so much good you are being selfish by not sharing it!

The other point is your comment about preaching to the 'doubters'. You have chosen to preach to ex COGers, which as mentioned already could be the most cynical doubters around.

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
"Holy PK, Batman!" What a load of shit!

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
As many people have pointed out:

Mr. Zwinge is a (ex)magician. The prize is a publicity tool.

See one persons account:
http://psipog.net/print-beware-pseudo-skepticism.html

If you take personal history into account, this fits the situation quite nicely. Even without having met any of the people involved, I would say Zwinge is ahead of himself. There is plenty of evidence that "mind" can affect matter. Once such piece of evidence is found by taking photos of ice that has been "prayed" over or spoken to or played music to. Dr. Emoto has gone far with this subject. It's quite an interesting phenomenon.

I also want to point out that paranormal investigation is the realm of the "scientist". In recent times the "scientist" has been educated and thinks he already knows why such things occur. Therefore he is unwilling to investigate paranormal phenomenon. This may be because it could destroy his world model and therefore either makes him insecure or stressed about the rebuild. Rebuilding his world model is a time consuming difficult process. If his world model works for what he wants to do, why change it?

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
COOL! sounds like you've gotten into the kind of stuff I am into!! I've recently begun an in depth study on the Dead Sea Scrolls and extra-Biblical books plus more recent phenomena such as the Free Energy Movement, which is gaining momentum. The Disclosure Project too, ties in to some of the free energy and latest research that is going on. . . unbelievable things are happening in the world and whenever I try to discuss anything with Family members it's always kindof... a let down. "We've heard all that stuff before!" (which none of them have) I mean, the things you can find out there basically really truly actually totally confirm some of the strangest doctrines of the Family, if even 5% of them are true.

I think my biggest beef with the family is simply that they've sort of stopped exploring and growing spiritually. It seems that they have become content with the paths they have traveled up till now, and finally with this whole reboot thing they're kind of losing that so maybe they'll become pioneers again. If people can wake up and become prophets themselves instead of only waiting for their leaders to show them what to do there may be some real interesting consequences in this earth.

I am a Christian that just believes in REALITY and frankly I have seen a lot of miracles surrounding the Family and my experiences with them, despite all the horrible stories and bio-shock feed of spiritual static that encompasses them about. I got my hands on a copy of Heaven's Girl and was surprised how un-bad it really was. After hearing so many terrible things it was quite Bible-based, comparitively. Sure, sex is pretty raw in some parts... but sex sells! How do people watch South Park? It's offensive and grabs your attention!

On the Dead Sea Scrolls... I recomend some of the old Jewish LEGENDS about Adam and Eve, the Book of Enoch (which varieties of Christian Mainstream Theologians are begining to research) and the book of Jasher and then "Lost Books of the Bible which include incredible accounts around Jesus's crucifiction and resurrection. Ever wonder what those strange ressurected saints were saying that popped up everywhere after Jesus came back to life? This explains it. Oh, there is so much knowledge out there. I wish people would see the Family more as the Rough Draft or Prototype of what people can do when they truly believe in no impossibilities and then take it to the next step. Well at least they got a lot of souls...

Another Ground-Laying faith book for me has been pretty much anything written by G.K. Chesterton (especially The Everlasting Man) ... you can kind of grasp the idea of an overarching "truth" in this world, and that it truly is WEIRD and there is room for lots of crazy and weird things. And the future is really. Weird.

my friend is working on a blog dealing with some of these subjects called projectunveil ... we're using wordpress which is quite nice. http://www.projectunveil.wordpress.com ... hopefully we can continue this dialogue in a gentlemanly mannerly manneristicness.

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
I've not gotten "into" anything. I'm merely observing. I've been observing the "Free Energy Movement" since I was a kid. Problem is, no matter how much you "move" doesn't mean it's gonna happen, because it's not politics - it's science. It either works or it doesn't work. I haven't seen anything work yet. Though some pretty big shots say they are playing with some weird phenomenon. That doesn't mean much until we see something work.

I am not a Family member, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, whatever whatever... I am not religious. So don't talk to me about religion. I'm sure that had you discussed it with TFI members, you guys would have gotten all excited together. They grasp at anything to support their belief system. Oh and by the way, TFI is a bunch of sick retards. OK that was a bit harsh on some of my friends still in there. In any case, I have no idea why you are bringing Dead Sea scrolls, sex, and Jewish legends into this. Don't go praising the TFI. If you like them, join them, and then may your children curse you - if you are planning to reproduce like the good Christian that is...

With that being said, it is quite cool. In light of subject, I would say that water is a pretty good spirit/energy detector. Study the DNA a bit - that's another cool one.

Re: My Christmas Gift for All of You!
On ya nerd, ha. I study quantum mech. And physiology also.. love it..
Here is my art book I produced on the subject.. what do you think?
http://www.zflash7.com
its on pdf there.