Just wanted to say...

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Reply Wed 6 Jul, 2005 03:06 pm
Just wanted to say...
....That after reading the story in The Rolling Stone Magazine that I am sickened
that these people are out there. I have 3 children and I could never even
begin to think about what those poor children had to endure.

My prayers are with every single survivor of this twisted family.

-EnCrYpTeD
 
Porceleindoll
 
Reply Wed 6 Jul, 2005 09:01 pm
Thank you encrypted, your support is much appreciated! Thank God we are survivors!
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2005 05:27 pm
disbelief
Also, after reading the very well written, yet utterly disturbing article in rolling stone, i must pass my sympathies on to those who have lost loved ones over the entire ordeal. also to those survivors who managed to escape the clutches of the family. Best of luck to all in the future.
 
encrypted
 
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2005 10:42 pm
No problem... I wish I could do more...
How many people were really effected by this? I know that the actual
numbers could be way off but maybe an estimate.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2005 07:49 am
encrypted,

Check out our article on Statistics here:
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Statistics

It is difficult to even estimate how many young people have been adversely affected by this group. I would posit that it is in the thousands.
 
evanman
 
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2005 01:20 pm
Came across a copy in a newsagents here in UK.

Got it, much better to read straight from the page.

Good one "Rolling Stone".

Sure there were a few inaccuracies, always are in relating CoG/family history, nevertheless the article was fair and unbaiased, filled with facts and, on the whole balanced!
 
Acheick
 
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2005 01:39 pm
Question to Thorwald on statistics
Thorwald - the prof asked me a question the other day and I wanted to pose it to you:

Looking at your statistics, do you think that the preponderance of second gen that were adversely affected during the sexual perversion hey day of the 70s and 80s have actually left TFI?

How many do you think still remain in the group and are loyal active members?

What is your honest guestamation?
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2005 05:58 pm
Acheick wrote:
do you think that the preponderance of second gen that were adversely affected during the sexual perversion hey day of the 70s and 80s have actually left TFI?


I really don't know, to be honest. I left the group 11 years ago and am only in contact with a few friends still in (and we generally don't discuss issues such as these).

However, I had a lot of friends while in that group and I can count on one hand the number that are still in. I would guess that of those that were born in the 70s, very few remain in the group.

I would also guess that, of those born after 1985, the number who have since left drops off dramatically. However, I wouldn't be surprised if at least 50% of those who turn 18 leave the group.

I have nothing to base these numbers off of; I am simply working off of a hunch.

PS: Who is the "prof"?
 
Acheick
 
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2005 10:23 pm
Thank you, Thorwald
The "prof" is the religious professor to whom I loaned my little F. library of books to for a couple of months. He's going to write a few things or put some of them into a religious journal he writes for. IDK, he may one day do a book. He does write books and wrote one on Synonon. He would also like to interview former members and current members, so the book might be a ways down the road. It would be good to have a more honest input from the sociological community other than Gordon Melton and others like him. This "prof" has been following TF almost since the beginning and in fact, I believe he was being heavily witnessed to to try and get him to join at one time when he was studying overseas.

Anywaysssss.... (hehehehe), I also told him the same thing. My guess (or more accurately, my impression) is that many of the second gen who suffered the most during the 70s and 80s have probably left. I have no statistics either except for what I've seen and heard. I'm going to send him your input and a link to the chart you have here.

Thanks for your help.
 
Acheick
 
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 01:34 pm
To Thorwald - about your chart
I wanted to encourage you about the chart I forwarded to the prof. He was very impressed Very Happy and this is what he wrote me:

Thanks for this information. There is incredibly valuable demographic
information on the website provided.
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Sat 9 Jul, 2005 10:50 pm
This is by no means an official statistic, but about 2 years ago I managed to compile a list of about 50-60 Family children I remember living with in my childhood and calculated that around 90% of them had since left (current ages would range from 25 to 30).

These were people who I had either met in person or online after they had left TF or had heard from a mutual friend that they had left. The other 10% includes people who I have not heard from/about and am assuming they are still in The Family.

Sadly, 6% of the people I remember growing up with have either died or committed suicide.
 
Felicity 2
 
Reply Sun 10 Jul, 2005 09:17 am
also wanted to say...
Hello everyone. I just joined this forum after having read the article in Rolling Stone, and also after looking up more info on the net. My heart goes out to all of the victims of the abuse (I cannot believe the number may be in the thousands!). As a fellow survivor of child abuse, these events really touch me deeply. To say the sexual abuse of children was a "mistake" is so utterly insensitive to the victims...instead of being ashamed of their hurtful actions, the perpetrators seem to be in denial. And I can't believe the organization still exists. What I find the most sad is that Ricky's suicide was the event that brought TF to the world's attention.
 
evanman
 
Reply Sun 10 Jul, 2005 11:01 am
I suspect that it is only considered (in CoG/Family) "abuse" if the child is "unwilling"

They would not consider "Consensuality" as being abusive. Such is the twisted logic .
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sun 10 Jul, 2005 11:16 am
Welcome, Felicity! Thank you for your comments.

Felicity wrote:
I cannot believe the number may be in the thousands!


Sadly, this is quite possibly the case. Unfortunately, actual statistics are compiled only by the leadership of this group and the numbers released would necessarily only reflect positive conclusions.

A simple example of this is the number of suicides of former (or current) members of this group. The group claims a much lower number than that claimed by some former members. The group also claims that some of the "suicides" were actually "accidental deaths". There is at least one case that I am aware of where the group claims a death was accidental but those who were present know it was a suicide.

There is also the possibility that some of the "suicides" claimed by some former members were actually "accidental deaths". I know of at least one case where this is true.

I believe the numbers are something like this: The group claims only 11 suicides of former members (in, I think, the last 15-20 years). Former members claim at least 30 (and the majority from the second generation). It is possible that the actual number is somewhere in between these two (say, 20). I must stress, however, that I really don't know the true numbers and am only relying on information available to me and my personal estimations.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sun 10 Jul, 2005 11:37 am
Another interesting statistics (or bit of information) that is rarely discussed but should, I believe, be considered is what becomes of those that leave (especially concerning the second, and now, third generations).

Initially, the group claimed that the vast majority of those who left ended up in "riotous living"; becoming drugs addicts, strippers, prostitutes, homeless, beggars, and headed nowhere. They were considered "backsliders" and, therefore, "spewn from God's mouth".

However, once it became clear that emphasising these results would reflect badly upon their early upbringing and instruction of these individuals ("Train up a child in the way he should go . . ."), they began to shift their emphasis on those that were doing well and had no ill regards or memories of the group.

A more likely scenario (and one that has proven true from my own findings) is that the spectrum of pursuits by former members is very wide. I have met those who are attorneys, graduate students, successful businesspersons, law enforcement officers, salespersons, homemakers, etc. I have also met those who strippers, drug addicts, homeless, etc.

The possible conclusions that could be drawn from this information are also wide and diverse. I have my personal ideas on what the real case may be. However, I am also convinced that the information the group advances has an agenda and is, thereby, biased. Of course, this may only be a natural course of any group or organisation. It might also be the case of some former members. The difference, in my mind, is that the group has much to lose and former members little to gain by the truth.
 
Acheick
 
Reply Sun 10 Jul, 2005 11:59 am
that's very true
Excellent observations.

I was discussing this with MG whose offspring have for the most part excelled. Some are in graduate school, high-end professions, etc. He stated that TF uses them to say they are success stories of TF. Of course they would say that - but it was always that way. If your child was doing good, it was because of their F. upbringing - but if they were doing bad, it was because of the parents' sins. You can't win with them, they will always come out the winner and the parents or "backsliders" the loser. Any thinking person within TFI should be able to see this. But of course, they are not thinking, just blindly following.

I think that the offspring that have done so well have done it because of their adversity. They have had to fight harder, work harder and be more determined to excel. They are determined not to be beaten down cultists like their "moron" (quoting an SG) parents. Unfortunately, those that end up in drugs or suicide have not been able to overcome this hurdle, the emotional pain is too deep and they are emotionally damaged.

And where is this so-called promised counseling Claire Borowick claims has been offered? I never heard of it, ever, ever, ever and I have an ex husband and a daughter in the group who communicate with me - they never said a thing. I'd like Claire to put her money where her mouth is - the lying sack of........
 
Felicity 2
 
Reply Sun 10 Jul, 2005 01:54 pm
I was just thinking about the idea of "consensuality" and how that is twisted logic...a child can think they like doing something if no one points out how wrong it is. Children are so influenced by adults that they are easy targets for "brainwashing". And when they grow up, like Ricky did, they realize how damaging these adults' actions have been on them. "Consensuality"--another way for abusers to put the blame on their victims! Disgusting. I just wonder...what has happened to the good values of Christianity, and how have they become so distorted in these cults? And we have to ask, why do people blindly follow the leaders of these unhealthy and abusive cults? Of course, children have no choice in the matter if they are raised in that kind of environment. But you'd think the adults would see there was a major problem with the organization and not allow children to be used in such a manner, and that they would not, in turn, engage in the abuse themselves.
 
Porceleindoll
 
Reply Sun 10 Jul, 2005 09:10 pm
Re: Question to Thorwald on statistics
Acheick wrote:
Thorwald - the prof asked me a question the other day and I wanted to pose it to you:

Looking at your statistics, do you think that the preponderance of second gen that were adversely affected during the sexual perversion hey day of the 70s and 80s have actually left TFI?

How many do you think still remain in the group and are loyal active members?

What is your honest guestamation?

I can hardly think of a single one who is still in the group of that age bracket, and the few that do come to mind are ones in high places of leadership, or hold interesting ministries, they aren't normal street-witnessers. Nathaniel, that Fisherman guy at Zerby's, Toni/Gideon, Carmen, who else?
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sun 10 Jul, 2005 09:16 pm
If by "Toni/Gideon" you also mean "Zack Attack", he is no longer in the group. He left a while back. I am in communication with him.

That "Fisherman guy" is Sean Michael Mullen and he is Peter Amsterdam's right-hand man. Still very much in.
 
Porceleindoll
 
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2005 12:14 am
Thorwald wrote:
If by "Toni/Gideon" you also mean "Zack Attack", he is no longer in the group. He left a while back. I am in communication with him.


I didn't know Toni left, that's news.
 
 

 
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