England?
I was wondering why so little is mentioned about the UK.

I was never a COG member but will contribute the very little I know. Please remember this was in my teens in the 70's and I am only telling you what I understood from that time. Writing it brought back a lot into focus. It made me realise how easily I could have been a COG member because I followed blindly thinking what was taught me was the will of God because the preacher said so. It all hinged on being in a different place at the right time. What is odd about the seventies is that so many of us, having rebelled against the parental strictures of the day, then submitted ourselves to overbearing control believing that was within the will of God. I think we have to say 'we are, and were responsible for the choices we made,' but it all happened in a context of what choices were available at the time. The traditional church did not provide what we needed. Maybe if there had been more of the blood, guts and fire Christianity in the churches we went to we would not have gone elsewhere. We chose what we thought was a dynamic Jesus only to pay the price of being convinced that a controlling environment was of God.

What I am trying to do is show the similarities in the dangerous thinking of a particular point in history. Today I can say I have seen the sick healed and heard from people raised from the dead. I do still believe that Jesus is my Saviour. I am born again and Praise God for that. I am so glad however to be free of the additional baggage.

I need to point out that I am not anti Jesus Army and recognise they did change; but trying to show how the thinking was within more than just COG at the time. Perhaps as a generation of believers from the late 70's and early 80's we need to ask God's forgiveness for allowing ourselves to submit to so much control.

It is a mistake to say the control was only in COG it was within the non mainstream churches at that time and it is the second and third generation who now have difficulties because of it. This was a precursor to the 'Shepherding Movement ' in main stream churches. That in turn started to be controlling for some people. Could it be that the root of it all is a spirit of control that manifested more openly in COG but was endemic at that time? Please don't think I am knocking all that was of the Holy Spirit and the amazing stuff God did do at this point in time - just the overboard stuff; the stuff many of us did repent of and move on from. It is the control aspect I question. The difficulty for those who shepherd is to draw a line between what is Biblical, and what is just our own thinking about how things ought to be.

The 'Family' - then known as the 'Children of God' or usually just called COG were said to have been brought over here by a millionaire called Kenneth Frampton. They lived in an old factory in Norwood. Realising they were a cult, and having lost his own two sons into the COG, he returned to America and brought over another group - 'Lonesome Stone.' This group then lived in the same factory and then moved to a house in South Norwood, London. I lived in Croydon.

I met the COG at about age 15 while truanting from school. Happy people with guitars took me to a bus and sang and prayed and probably gave me tea. I remember feeling happy and elated. I thought they were wonderful. Then a bright eyed girl told me to 'really pray about leaving my parents.' I probably would have done at that time had other circumstances not intervened.

By 197I was a born again Christian and wanting to live like Jesus did. At 18 years old I was living a life of faith with the Jesus Family in South Norwood. I didn't really stay there all that long because although it was not the Children of God you still had the mentality of the 'you are out of God's will if you leave us,' and so there was a need to 'escape.' I wanted to be with my future husband and so we left together. This Norwood house was the home base of Lonesome Stone, the musical, linked to Jim and Sue Palossari and funded by Kenneth Frampton. I don't know if it was ever inhabited by COG members but I always thought the picture painted directly onto the wall in the living room was done by one. The house is now demolished. Like COG we had a double decker bus. It was parked in the front garden and used for Lonesome Stone tours. So here I can identify. How hard it was to reconcile the insistence of others that to leave was out of the will of God with the need to go. How hard to maintain a facade of happiness when the truth is that you are not happy, but you have a belief that because you are following Jesus you must be. Probably a lot of the things I felt were internal and not really imposed as strictly as I felt in the case of the Jesus Family, but internal pressure is a huge thing. Fear if being out of God's will was an immense stress for me.

So while the COG were on the streets so were we. The Jesus Family. By 'We' I mean those who didn't become part of the Lonesome Stone show but lived in the home base. We lived by faith. We did however preach the ordinary gospel. We preached repenting of sin and asking Jesus into your heart. By that we did mean the same things as the Nicene creed and what every evangelical church teaches.

I guess we all ate pretty badly at times?

The COG were the sworn enemies of some of the Jesus Family because they had involvement with them. I don't think this extended to everyone but there were certainly a few people passionately wanting to rescue people from COG. In particular I remember a guy called 'Swaff' who had a lot of passion to rescue people. We had that ministry. Perhaps is WAS God given because nobody else was helping. I remember two girls we rescued who were in quite a state. They were under age and we rang the police and got them back with their parents and they seemed to be happy with their own church after that.

Meeting COG people on the streets I think they did have a sort of wierd far away look - and there always seemed to be someone around to 'look after them. They seemed to have minders. I suspect however we also had a wierd far away look! A LOT of people you meet on the streets have a kind of wierd far away look. I kind of still worry about that when I go out evangelising - that people might see a wierd far away look and want to RUN!

What is odd now is that we also used to look out for each other. Witnessing was never alone in the Jesus Family or the Jesus Army. In the Jesus Family you could go out and do other things on your own though. This was not so in the Jesus Army when I stayed in one of their houses. I was surprised people could not even go for a walk alone. Meet a COG person on the streets and talk to them and another would appear at their side............I think the moonies did that too. Now I would suggest it to sisters in our church for safety reasons, but not to protect each other from the world. It made the world's dangers so very big, and our Jesus very small.

In all three cases I think the outside world had become a dangerous enemy. Ah, well you see, the devil is a prowling lion seeking who he can devour.................In reality the most freedom was in the Jesus Family. I could at least walk home to my parents without someone worrying. I could also bear to be away a night without that enormous intense internal pressure to be back in the KINGDOM that made you be less than loving to your family.

In terms of child rearing - the harsh discipline and strange attitudes to children the Jesus Army at that time was not too different although they introduced these things in, I think, the early 80's - they had a 'parenting book.' I actually kept that book hidden from my ex husband because it was not for non 'Kingdom' eyes. I was encouraged to do that by the elders. They do now say that book was wrong. It was wrong. Definitely wrong. Canes carried openly and used. I am not knocking the use of biblical discipline, and many parents were sensible; but get a large group together and a common thread on that subject and some will go overboard and become abusive. What is forgotten, even when there is a lip service paid to people choosing their own way, that there can be a lot of peer pressure and internal pressure to perform 'spiritually' in the right way and that this will manifest in the physical. Put a person with abusive tendencies into that situation and they are now able to justify the abuse.

Children had few toys in the early days of the Jesus Army -but there was no sexual abuse, or at least not endemically. A few instances have been reported but I think in that respect there was probably less then in most communities, and the emphasis was on keeping families together and helping them. The idea some of you were torn apart as families makes me want to weep. However the keeping apart and less visiting of 'outsiders' was a part of the way things went in the Jesus Army. I kept outside of that because of my situation, but certainly, there were people whose families got hurt by them not going home for Christmas = which they did not celebrate. This did change, but it was very much the case in the 70's and 80's.

What the children could not do was take part in outside activities - even at school, such as clubs or sports. They were beaten with rods which parents actually carried around with them if they misbehaved. Mostly the discipline was not abusive by the standards of the 70's but some people were abusive with those rods. (By no sexual abuse I mean these practices were not endemic.) There was at least one case brought before the courts where someone was convicted of abuse. I believe this was an isolated incident as parents were generally very protective because of the large numbers of strangers passing through the community. Not that this in itself prevents all, but they were vigilant and not naieve on the subject.)

It was also recommended children did not have cuddly toys and dollls. Apparently to make them relate to humans. Thankfully my own children did because I was married to an unbeliever and therefore had more freedom.) I also threw away the wooden spoon.......when it became socially unacceptable to have a rod the parents used wooden spoons.

Another common thread is the control of sex. I fully believe there was and would not like to say there still is not, sexual abuse of children in the COG. I do believe those who are saying it happened to them. Control of sex can be by both legal and non legal routes however. Control can be by forbidding as well as encouraging sex. Neither the Jesus Family or the Jesus Army condoned pre-marital or non monogamous marriage. In that way they were better. The Jesus Family controlled relationships rather than sex. The Jesus Army controlled marital sex because if you teach things from the pulpit, then people will think it is God's word. Not marrying outside of the organisation was a feature of both COG and the Jesus Army. Members of the Jesus Army were also being told that couples should have single beds and that sex was only for procreation. I also remember teaching that said contraception was wrong. I remember hearing teaching that couples should become so spiritually united they would not need sex. I have no idea if they still teach that but I hope they now let couples decide for themselves what is right for them these days.

The Jesus Family did try to control relationships. They wanted to split myself and future husband up so we experienced the negative side of this first hand. The Jesus Army also let elders have a say in who married who. Again they didn't want me with my ex husband and later apologised for the stress they had put us through. Permission had to be sought from elders from community elders to date if you lived in the community houses. I don't know what they do now but I think they are a bit more free now.

I never saw children abused physically in the Jesus Family, but I did see it in the Jesus Army. It is important here to realise that there were many sensible adults who did not blindly follow things in the Jesus Family or Jesus Army, but I did see things I would now consider abusive in terms of beating children. However this was the 70's and 80's and the law was very different then, as were attitudes. Abuse tends to be culture specific so much that is now punishable in a court of law was deemed 'reasonable chastisement' back then.

One factor I would also imagine is common. On leaving the Jesus Family I remember being terrified I was now out of God's will for my life and feeling very strange. I also remember leaving the Jesus Army in the 1980's and being almost like a zombie and terrified for a long time I was out of God's will. When I finally left in the 1990's things had changed so much for the better that there was no reason to feel anything other than that God was moving me on. I should point out they did discontinue most of the ridiculous. I realise this is about the Family, but it does seem there are common threads. I have memories of being terrified Jesus would come again and I would be left behind because I was not in the right place with God because I left the will of God by leaving. I remember not being able to think straight and I am told I was zombie like by my ex husband (who was very concerned all along.) He lost his faith so it didn't affect him the same way when we left the Jesus Family. I only realised years later that I really was acting strangely when I left the first time. That was during my second year at Uni. When I finally made the break in 2000 it was not a problem. However, there were some years in between where I was not able to leave because of my own internal thinking, and it took a major life crisis to get me out.

So here you have groups of young people in the 70's agreeing with very authoritarian regimes that were more repressive than the parental households that many of us had so desperately wanted to leave. A desire - a very genuine desire to follow Jesus that in many cases has outlasted all of the junk that was part of our lives back then. At the time we had certainly escaped from other things. Many of the people in these communities had a drug filled past and that had changed.

Both the Jesus Army and the Family say they have changed. I have no problem with the Jesus Army as I do know how they operate now and have friends still members. I personally would never go back and believe God told me not to. I still see the isolationist tendencies in some of the members I know. I think they are probably unaware of how it still comes accross even if the outward teaching has changed.

But the COG - it is the non admission of the child abuse that seems to be the real problem and the abduction of children. The Jesus Army repented publicly of mistakes. They are not so isolated now. There has been progress and a more sensible return to what the Bible actually says. I don't get the same impression of a heart felt review from the COG.

I wonder, what was it about our generation that some of us had to seek out the controlling, or were sought out by it. I think maybe the hippy stuff played in a lot. Living together in a community is a great idea, and sharing all things in common is a great way to live. Perhaps the trouble is that those entrusted with that kind of vision are prime targets for controlling spirits? (That is, if you believe there is more than one dimension.) Perhaps also, leaders who would in order to be leaders have to have some controlling ability are sometimes not strong enough to ensure they don't themselves become corrupted.

Several people staying with us in the Jesus Family were escaped from the COG. I do remember a guy called David Hoyt who I don't see mentioned anywhere on this site. I may be wrong, but I always understood he was one of the leaders of COG who had defected. We certainly had young girls who had run away to London and found themselves involved with COG come to us, and helped to reunitie them with their parents. David Hoyt always looked shell shocked to me.

We did see Mo letters. We found them really wierd. I think I may have seen some not distributed through the streets.

I do not remember anyone saying they had been abused sexually, but the implication they had been remains in my mind. I somehow think that two girls I helped had been. They were certainly frightened. I think in general the feeling was that COG might do something bad to us all for being against them. How much of that was real and how much paranoia I would not like to say.

I have a few memories (this was late 70's). My ex husband once told me he and another guy had spent the night climbing over the roof of the COG headquaters - why,I never did fathom! I think it was because we were very concerned to rescue people from this cult.

It never really occurred to us that perhaps not working and living by faith on the charity of a millionaire might also not be God's will!(to this day because of this kind of thinking I have no pension because the Jesus Army taught that apart from legal insurance you didn't need to provide for the future - after all you were going to stay with them forever and everything was provided. Does that sound familiar? It works till you are near retiring age and have left.......My counsel to my children at college is get a pension now!)

I think we also for some reason ended up with some food from the COG stores. No idea how we came by that. I think someone stole it!

My guess is that many who came by the Jesus Family route out of the COG ended up in America as the Lonesome Stone cast eventually returned there and most people, I think, became fairly normal Christians. I have noticed Lonesome Stone tracks on the internet and a few people with web pages.

I joined the Jesus Army (NOT the Salvation Army)- which shows how deep the desire for community can be. I joined the Jesus Family because I wanted a community lifestyle and to live like Jesus. I would have joined COG because I thought they lived like Jesus. By the grace of God here I am!


I'm a Minister in a fairly normal church now. There were also a lot of good things about my time in the Jesus Army and because there were also some good people who loved Jesus most of the teaching became fairly standard for any evangelical church. My children still feel messed up by the involvement and they had a fairly normal upbringing by the Jesus Army standards. I get to preach every so often and I am so conscious that if I preach then I have a HUGE responsibility to say nothing that God didn't show me to say - and to be aware I could still get it wrong. If you tell people from a pulpit to eat only white sliced bread there will always be people who will do just that. You are usually talking to a lot of very vulnerable people.

One thing that has been puzzling me is that I never see any evidence of the Family here in the UK and yet I am sure they are here. Every so often I see a zombie looking young person selling some kind of paper on the street. Thanks to the Xfamily and other sites I now know what to look for.

We have had a materialistic youth for a while and so is it perhaps that the young are again beginning to seek out things different from the boring lives their parents lead. It wasn't just the COG who was the enemy, it was also Divine Light, Guru Mahariji and Hare Krishna........................I just wonder if we are about to see a return of cult like stuff here in the UK?

I wonder, if I had life over again would it be any different. I still want to live in a community. I am still willing to preach the gospel on the streets. I just thank God I finally got to a place where I can do all that without the control issues and all the nonsense.

Minister J