Pedophiles infiltrate cults?

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Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 03:28 pm
Pedophiles infiltrate cults?
I've been reading up on cults after finding this site. I found this statement, and it really made sense to me.

Quote:
According to Steven Hassan, a former Moonie and author of the book Combating Cult Mind Control there are four qualifying components of mind control. Page 66 of his book says:

“Behavior control, thought control, emotional control, and information control: each form of control has great power and influence on the human mind. Together, they form a totalistic web, which can manipulate even the strongest-minded people. In fact, it is the strongest-minded individuals who make the most involved and enthusiastic cult members.â€
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 06:27 pm
quote
Very interesting. From where is that quote taken?

Personally, I doubt you'll find Family members on that site, unless things have drastically changed since my day. Family members have tended to stick to other Family members, and there wasn't that sort of interchange between members and non-members.

Wishing you all the best.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 07:02 pm
Quote:
I know the Family says that they no longer practice open sex, especially with minors, but I'll bet that's not true at all. I'll bet that it's alive and strong.

KimPossible, the last few years i was in the Family, sexual relations with minors was absolutely not condoned or tollerated. if something's going on, it's not because of their current ideologies and practices, but would just be some private pervert doing his/her own thing.
 
KimPossible
 
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 10:09 pm
Di - I can't remember the exact link I got that from, but it was on the ex-Jehovah's Witness site and it was a mother that had written a book about having been in that particular cult. I'll find it if you like. I actually cut and pasted it into a word document as I've been taking notes - my memory these days is not so great, God forbid when I turn 40 next year Wink

Cookie - I sure hope you're right about the Family. But I guess what I'm saying is that these pedophiles discuss ways and places to get a child to want to be with them. What better place than in a cult that has used mind control in some way or another, especially on a young child. Shoot, priests could write a book on how to get with a child, master manipulators. I'd really like to see if the sites I talked about previously have any clues into this.

Also, the very last thing I'll do, and you can trust me on this, is to give any details. I know many people that have been abused in the past, and I know all about triggers and such, and would never do anything to aid in something so horrible.

I joined the site this afternoon, so I'll let you know what I find. So far it's disgusting, I'll tell you that. All the talk of God and mixing it with pedophilia, it's amazingly disturbing. They've taken it to a new level that before a week ago, I really didn't think about existing. Bleh.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 10:57 pm
There are pleanty of weirdos left in TFI, but what i am saying is that sex with minors is not something promoted anymore (and the new young generation are made to think that these things happening to us is a myth).
 
KimPossible
 
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2007 11:29 pm
I gotcha cookie. i have a question. apparently in the Jehovah's witness movement, when a pedophile is brought to their board of elders, it's almost always swept under the rug (as told by the victims). And because they live similarly to TFI, not quite a commune but close enough, they never attempt to contact police until they're older and have left the movement. Now, this is all coming from what I've read, because I've never been part of a cult that I know of Wink

Anyway, my question is, if an "esteemed" leader in TFI was brought to the attention of the Karen Zerby's of the movement (for being a pedophile), would they sweep it under the rug also? Or would they excommunicate them immediately based on what the world thinks of them now. This is not a sarcastic question at all, I'm very curious as to what you think.

Oh, and BTW, thus far I've found that the "Christian" pedophiles are members of pretty much every protestant church out there. Haven't run across TFI though at this point.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 12:16 am
this is my opinion, but i think that if something happened now, they would be punished by being xcom'd. but not turned in to authorities. as far as those who were known pedos in the past, no, they don't seem to care. matthew is the clearest example of that. he got a girl preggers at 14.
 
KimPossible
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 12:34 am
just looked him up. If you mean Perfilio, which I'm pretty sure you do, the picture of him is so nasty, he even has the pedophile smirk.

1:34 here, bedtime. I haven't been sleeping well after discovering all this stuff you all went through. In fact, my husband was away Thursday night at camp with my son, and I had a really hard time going to bed alone. Had to check under my bed and in the closets. Pure evil, that's what this is.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 02:04 am
Cookie wrote:
There are pleanty of weirdos left in TFI, but what i am saying is that sex with minors is not something promoted anymore


I completely agree with Cookie here. Even though I left over 14 years ago (early '90s), I knew that it had all stopped as an official policy. Obviously, there are still perverts (male and female) hanging around and will probably never be brought to justice. However, the group's leaders are smart enough to know that it would absolutely devastate their organisation if they kept sex-with-minors as an official policy after Lord Justice Ward's verdict.

KimPossible wrote:
just looked him up. If you mean Perfilio, which I'm pretty sure you do, the picture of him is so nasty, he even has the pedophile smirk.


I do not agree with this comment in the least. This is the same type of mania/hysteria that was promulgated during the Salem which trials ("He/She looks like a which, so he/she must be one") or when that conservative lady said that Osama bin Laden "looked like the devil". That is not how we should proceed. Attempting to label someone as "evil" upon their looks is low class; we are better than that . . . we have first-hand accounts of Mr. Perfilio's abuse, we don't need to resort to ad hominem attacks.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 04:27 am
recent troubles
This is not hard and fast evidence, and I believe that it would be labelled as "heresay" in a court (by my nearly nonexistant legal knowledge). I heard from a former member victim that Lonnie Davis and Claire Borowick still coerce young people (this one was 17) to engage in scheduled sex with men as old as middle age - even against their expressed wishes.
I consider that abuse. But in deference to the one involved, I have kept quiet. Thus no names....
Maybe others have experienced it first-hand and would care to comment?
 
evanman
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 07:37 am
In many countries 17 yr olds are considered legally old enough for sexual relations. In UK, for example, the age of consent is 16. Thus it would not be considered paedophilia. Coercion, though, would be considered "rape."

In UK there is no crime of "Statutory rape."

Although it is a criminal offence in UK to have sexual relations with a minor (under 16 yr old,) very rarely are teenage boys prosecuted for this crime, especially where it is deemed to have been with the full consent of the girl in question. For this reason the UK has Europe's highest instance of teenage pregnancies.

When I was a teenager in the 1960's I remember sitting my final high school exams at 16 and one girl came in for hers being heavily pregnant.

In other countries the age of consent can be much lower. For example, in Iran girls as young as 9yrs of age are given in marriage to much older men.

The Family's change of policy only occurred after news got out to the general public, especially those very incriminating videos.
 
KimPossible
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 11:03 am
Quote:
Thorwald wrote: I do not agree with this comment in the least. This is the same type of mania/hysteria that was promulgated during the Salem which trials ("He/She looks like a which, so he/she must be one") or when that conservative lady said that Osama bin Laden "looked like the devil". That is not how we should proceed. Attempting to label someone as "evil" upon their looks is low class; we are better than that . . . we have first-hand accounts of Mr. Perfilio's abuse, we don't need to resort to ad hominem attacks.


Agreed, and that's not the kind of person I am, so you don't need to worry there. It was late and my mind was swimming with the evil I'd been studying, so apologies for the low class comment.

Evanman brings up a point that I was mulling over last night. The research on pedophelia I'm accustomed to is US only, and a lot of TFI is overseas, correct? I'm pretty honed on the laws here for AoC, but other countries are something completely different. It would be nice to see a chart with AoC laws in other countries to begin to know what we're dealing with.

On the boylover pedophile site, there are many people from all likes of the world, it seems Sweden is a big one, but really pretty much everywhere. I've seen them discuss AoC in the past, and how much easier it is in "their" country to have sex with a child and that it's accepted. (I'm sure much of that is just "talk" though).

I'll go on some of their sites today and see how much is going on in the UK.
 
mariposela
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 02:45 pm
kim:

I don't think the big problem here is pedophilia. The big problem here is "brain washing" tactics and methods to change one's moral values and to assume that something that is obviously wrong is a good deed at the eyes of God.

I don't doubt that maybe some pedophiles will look for sects to satisfy their needs but still I think the main problem here is other.

I know that in France and in Peru, I think, that the legislatures have legislated against cults and have penalized brainwashing. US has not. Still I know there are many cases in which Courts have explicitly said that the 1st Amendment is not an absolut right when it comes to people invading your freedom to act. There is the case of Whollersheim v Scientology, California's Supreme Court defined various instances in which a cult can coerce you by brainwashing and thought reforming. Scientology had to give the guy a few millions.

I dont think its about the money, but definitley that is one way of hurting them badly. I was part of a sect too and I've been battling against them for a year and a half now and vey much like The Family, the going public about their scandals haven't stop them. It did hurt them bad, many have left the group but there are still many of them and now that everything is publicly known (our leader turned out to be a sexual abuser) the only explanation for them to still believe in this bastard even knowing what he did is the mind controling that he achieved through all this years (he started de sect in the late 70's). He is now dissapeared, but keeps sending his teachings via e-mail to the actual leaders of the group, very much alike to Maria and Peter. Trying to make them think and rationalize faith is a very difficult and sometimes impossible task. (my parents are still in the sect, even though I was one of the sexually abused by the leader). That is why sometimes I have gone to think that the only way to stop them is to have the government to act on it or to take away from them their economic power by suing them. Legal battles are not cheap but it is a way of trying.

In my opinion we have to put some pressure on politcs so that we find a way of penalizing the brainwashing with the intention to harm. In that way even when there was "consent" it can be punished.

I read somewhere that in Europe there is an international anti-cult League or something. Here in Puerto Rico, the legislature ammend the penal code and included in the sexual assault instances when the agressor is a religous leader and takes advantage of his fiduciary position.

Again, sorry for my language limitations.
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 02:47 pm
but even tho they're overseas mostly, they have a set age allowed for sex with adults. correct me if i'm wrong guys but what i remember is that 16 is ok up to 18 and 18 is ok up to 21 and 21 is ok up to decrepit. Laughing
 
Cookie 2
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 02:50 pm
oh remember guys how Berg tried to demonize Genisis and Zac Attack with horrid pictures of them that he analyzed? i made up my mind with Z.A never to judge someone by their picture. cuz i knew him at that time and he was a great guy that they'd taken a bad snapshot of from film.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 06:12 pm
KimPossible wrote:
It would be nice to see a chart with AoC laws in other countries to begin to know what we're dealing with.


See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent
 
winter 1
 
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2007 02:10 am
Cookie wrote:
this is my opinion, but i think that if something happened now, they would be punished by being xcom'd. but not turned in to authorities. as far as those who were known pedos in the past, no, they don't seem to care. matthew is the clearest example of that. he got a girl preggers at 14.


I'll have to say that it depends on the person's position in the group, and who else knows about it, and if the victim is subdueable. "Are you happy to be able to show Jesus' love?" I know people that have not been excommunicated after having committed crimes in the 90's. I don't think it's much different in some countries.

As someone else said on this site, most of the FG family leadership has committed some kind of pedo related crime.
 
winter 1
 
Reply Sun 23 Dec, 2007 02:20 am
Thorwald wrote:
KimPossible wrote:
It would be nice to see a chart with AoC laws in other countries to begin to know what we're dealing with.


See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent


I would not trust that. I know the laws of certain countries vary from what is stated on that page. Be careful when using wikipedia.
For example:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/06/wikipedia_and_overstock/

Be afraid. Be very afraid... Muahahahaha...
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2007 12:53 pm
Thorwald wrote:
KimPossible wrote:
just looked him up. If you mean Perfilio, which I'm pretty sure you do, the picture of him is so nasty, he even has the pedophile smirk.


I do not agree with this comment in the least. This is the same type of mania/hysteria that was promulgated during the Salem which trials ("He/She looks like a which, so he/she must be one") or when that conservative lady said that Osama bin Laden "looked like the devil". That is not how we should proceed. Attempting to label someone as "evil" upon their looks is low class; we are better than that . . . we have first-hand accounts of Mr. Perfilio's abuse, we don't need to resort to ad hominem attacks.


Thorwald, I very much appreciated your caution here. As someone with a direct ancestor (Rebecca Nurse) who was hung at Salem during those witch trials, I've always reacted quickly to overarching "stories" which claim to explain human evil in a few sentences. Whether those stories claim to be Christian (the witchcraft trials) or a mix of science and psychology (some of the brainwashing stuff), we need to maintain our critical thinking apparatus. When groups as totally dissimilar as the JWs and the COG/Family are neatly packaged into one "evil story." Reality doesn't work like that.

As for child abuse, it is a horrific thing. But again, to equate a sexually conservative (in my opinion) group such as the JWs with the Family just isn't right. Does sexual repression among some fundamentalist groups lead to making it easier for folks to abuse children (and women for that matter)? Sure. But should we be comparing such groups (among which I number the JWs) with the COG? Hmm.

Blessings,
jon trott
 
 

 
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