spirit trips

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Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 07:07 am
spirit trips
when i was a small girl, at a very early age i became extreemly frustrated at the lack of 'spirituality' i personally experienced. daily i witnessed my peers and the adults around me having out of body experiences and going on spirit trips. i always asked god to give me a sign or prove to me he existed and i wated to believe so badly. nothing! at the age of around 11 i started to doubt the existence of god simply because eerything could be explained away. example

the lights go out (electricity in a third world country is very unreliable)
we pray
a) the lights come back on and its proclaimed a miracle
b) the lights dont come back on and its gods will he has a superior plan.

i guess i just want to know if anyone really has been on a spirit trip or recieved a vision, or anything else at all? was it all really a lie? please dont come down hard on me for desperatly wanting to believe in somthing.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 07:24 am
Were you around in the 70s?
 
alieninside
 
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 07:32 am
no, why do you ask? i was born in india in 1983.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 07:34 am
Just curious. I was "around" in the 70s. Just thought there might a connection, that's all.
 
alieninside
 
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2007 07:38 am
.
 
m 2
 
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2007 07:16 am
Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. However there is no proof for the existence of the spiritual, except for some strange facts that are slowly but surely being explained by science in more mundane natural explanations.

For example, many (though relatively few) people have at some point in their lives had what could be called out of body experience(s). This unfortunately can be explained in natural terms, namely the mind. I say unfortunately because I think it might be nice if this life were not the end.
Michael Shermer has a clip on Youtube where he has a semi/quasi OBE, brought on artificially.

Then most "spiritual experiences" happen under quite suspicious circumstances, i.e. in places where people are superstitious, mainly to believers, and never under scientific scrutiny.

And as extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, we can apply Occam's razor and safely assume that, barring any new extraordinary evidence, there is no such thing as the spiritual realm.
 
winter 1
 
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 08:09 am
I watched a documentary about remote viewers in the CIA and what not. Whatever you want to call it, somehow it seems there is more than you can see. For example, pain. Can you see pain? Can you prove pain? Whiplash cases come to mind where docs can see no actual physical damage, but somehow the patient is in pain and needs to spend money on medication. Maybe someday we will be able to see some of these things. However, just because we cannot see them now is no reason to dismiss them. I think it is about as silly as saying the world is flat because we have never sailed around it. Prejudice in any situation is not a good idea. I think it is good to keep oneself aware of more than one opinion.

@m
"Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity." Occam's Razor? Somehow I fail to see the correlation.
 
m 2
 
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2007 12:41 pm
winter wrote:

@m
"Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity." Occam's Razor? Somehow I fail to see the correlation.



Wiki wrote:

This is often paraphrased as "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest hypothetical entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

We know the natural exists. We don't know the supernatural exists. In fact, we can't even properly define supernatural or spiritual essence seeing that we don't know it exists, cannot detect it in any way, and therefore have no way of deducing and declaring what it is.

And when you also take into account all the myriad of other variables that would result in the acceptance of a spiritual reality, it seems to be a far better, less involved, simpler way to explain phenomena if we keep to what we know exists (or what we have reason to assume exists, i.e. by a mathematical necessity) and don't try to use explanations involving things that may for all we know exist nowhere else but in our heads.
 
winter 1
 
Reply Tue 24 Jul, 2007 06:06 am
m wrote:

And when you also take into account all the myriad of other variables that would result in the acceptance of a spiritual reality, it seems to be a far better, less involved, simpler way to explain phenomena if we keep to what we know exists (or what we have reason to assume exists, i.e. by a mathematical necessity) and don't try to use explanations involving things that may for all we know exist nowhere else but in our heads.


Very good point. That is why I appreciate materialists and spiritualists. It's almost like they are specialists in their fields. I can watch how things develop. Call me lazy. Who needs TV?
 
JASONLANIK
 
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2007 06:15 pm
Re: spirit trips
alieninside wrote:
when i was a small girl, at a very early age i became extreemly frustrated at the lack of 'spirituality' i personally experienced. daily i witnessed my peers and the adults around me having out of body experiences and going on spirit trips. i always asked god to give me a sign or prove to me he existed and i wated to believe so badly. nothing! at the age of around 11 i started to doubt the existence of god simply because eerything could be explained away. example

the lights go out (electricity in a third world country is very unreliable)
we pray
a) the lights come back on and its proclaimed a miracle
b) the lights dont come back on and its gods will he has a superior plan.

i guess i just want to know if anyone really has been on a spirit trip or recieved a vision, or anything else at all? was it all really a lie? please dont come down hard on me for desperatly wanting to believe in somthing.
I know what you mean about the FI and the so called "SPIRIT TRIPS" many claimed to have .I was always desperate to expierience the same TRIP but to no avail.I personaly think that they were lies just to get attention.I know I came up with a few lies myself involving meeting my gaurdian angel in a park, the lord talking to me in a dream etc.In the FI it was the thing to do.I know of many instances when we would all have desperate prayer over someone with an illness and they never got better.
 
 

 
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