Atheist's Wager

Thorwald wrote:

This thread has gotten off the initial subject. My intention for starting this thread was to point out that Pascal's famous wager is flawed (as shown in the article I linked to).

Well, I think it is flawed for the simple reason that we are not certain about the conditions or existence of heaven.

Here is my wager. Well it's not really a wager. It's more of a deduction:

Jesus, Moses, Buddha, and many other wise men and prophets have told us some similar things. read: moral code. Whether following them will help me get into heaven, I know not. What I do know is that I have personally found them sound and helpful to live my life. So for me it is not a matter of after I die. Rather it is a matter of here and now. If there is any merit to my actions in an afterlife, well, then that is good too.

As for science, why not work on some clean energy sources? Why not invest in something that will keep this planet alive. I think we as humans have issues to get sorted out.

winter wrote:

As for science, why not work on some clean energy sources? Why not invest in something that will keep this planet alive. I think we as humans have issues to get sorted out.

The second part, "[keeping] this planet alive", is what I do for a living (from a scientific perspective).

Since you are interested in this stuff and you say it is your job, I thought I'd ramble on about this here. I had an idea. Perhaps it is not new. It is in regard to energy and transport.

An old friend of mine mentioned something to me years ago about making a parabolic structure to focus the Sun's heat on pipes or stores of water or some liquid that absorbs heat better than water. Then this liquid could expand (boil?) and power turbines to generate electricity. To my knowledge, solar panels made of silicon degenerate after some years and are expensive to produce. So this seems to be a longer lasting and easy to upgrade solution. Then the thought came to me to rather use the turbines to compress air, which can be used in a light weight vehicle power by compressed air from a tank. One could exchange a decompressed tank for a fully compressed tank much like one exchanges gas bottles.

I am not much of a scientist. So please tell me what you think of that.

winter wrote:

I am not much of a scientist. So please tell me what you think of that.

That is not my field. However, there are many people working on similar ideas.

A good read and related to our debates: Scientists Draw Link Between Morality And Brain's Wiring.

Very interesting. I read recently about some scientists in Japan doing some research on the brain. They found that children that are yelled at have under developed.....? Ach, I forgot what part it was called. It had something to do with emotional stability. My brain must have gotten rewired recently. As I am much more stable than before. Or maybe it's just because I am not in a cult anymore.

Thorwald, have you ever experienced a de ja vu? Dunno how to spell that.

winter wrote:

Thorwald, have you ever experienced a de ja vu? Dunno how to spell that.

Many times. (It is spelt "dÃ©jÃ vu".)

It is one reason I don't think that what we see with our eye balls is all there is to it.

dÃ©jÃ vu's feel real, but so do those dreams you wake up disoriented from. looked up the word on wikipedia, and it gives some interesting possible expls. I think like me, a lot of people want this to mean something, that there's something more out there. i haven't given up all hope, but i am also open to the possibilit that there isn't Crying or Very sad

.

The reason I think many of the DJVs I have had are memories of dreams, is because when I meditate and actively try to remember my dreams, I have many DJVs. When I get really busy with things, I rarely remember my dreams and rarely have DJVs.

I think there is more harm in thinking that I am purely a temporal being than thinking that I am an eternal being. If there is any harm in thinking I am an eternal being, please point it out. I think that if one thinks that everything ends when one's physical body dies, it may lead one to displaying avarice in different areas of life.

winter wrote:

I think there is more harm in thinking that I am purely a temporal being than thinking that I am an eternal being. If there is any harm in thinking I am an eternal being, please point it out. I think that if one thinks that everything ends when one's physical body dies, it may lead one to displaying avarice in different areas of life.

Perhaps I'm being Captain Obvious here, but your argument is getting very close to the one which the "Atheist's Wager" is a rebuttal to.

Monger wrote:

winter wrote:
I think there is more harm in thinking that I am purely a temporal being than thinking that I am an eternal being. If there is any harm in thinking I am an eternal being, please point it out. I think that if one thinks that everything ends when one's physical body dies, it may lead one to displaying avarice in different areas of life.

Perhaps I'm being Captain Obvious here, but your argument is getting very close to the one which the "Atheist's Wager" is a rebuttal to.

Yup. Though the differences should also be obvious. The harm I speak of is not in the form of arbitrary punishment. It is more self-inflicted. It is self contained and makes no assumptions of life after one's body dies. So therefore, I think it is quite different from Pascal's Wager. WDYT?

winter wrote:

So therefore, I think it is quite different from Pascal's Wager.

I believe Monger was referring to the "Atheist's Wager", not "Pascal's Wager".

Thorwald wrote:

winter wrote:
So therefore, I think it is quite different from Pascal's Wager.

I believe Monger was referring to the "Atheist's Wager", not "Pascal's Wager".

"...but your argument is getting very close to the one which the "Atheist's Wager" is a rebuttal to."

Yes is it getting very close to Pascal's Wager, which the Atheist's Wager is a rebuttal to.

Right? Am I particularly confused today?

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