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Wed 16 Nov, 2005 05:49 pm
Rude Doctors (yep, I said it)
HI!!
If you worked in any other career, if a co-worker is rude, talks down to you, or speaks over you---you correct them. Well, how and/or when do you stick up for yourself when it's a physician? They ARE our co-workers but, some physicians fail to see us as anything but glorified butt wipers.
When I was being interviewed for my first nursing job, my supervisor asked me "how will you deal with a rude physician?" I answered her and then added "how do you deal with a physician being rude to me?" Now, no disrespect was intended, however, I've worked just as hard to have the initials "RN" after my name.
I am a new nurse and don't have much experience dealing with this type of rudeness----I've previously always had office/clerical jobs where there wasn't this type of male hirearchy.
I am not a very pushy person and avoid confrontation but, I don't want to be someone's doormat. I would love to tell a doctor "don't speak to me that way" BUT, is that okay??? Anyone have any similar circumstances?? Any suggestions??
novice
a rude DR
yes, I have worked with a few rude and mad doc . One time the staff doc spoke to me that she tried to order a blood work for Q4H , but the new system ( computerize ) was not permited her to do so . therefore, I asked her that " you want me to call a person ..to help you ". she suddenlly, threw the computer mouse on the table and said " you helped me nothing today " with an angry face. Sure, I was so upset . I told up front before she walked away " DR.. you are a professtional , you are not supposed to behave that way. If you upset someone, it was not fair to throw things on me". The doc said nothing and walked away. I reported to my NUA. The following day, I took the doc to a private room and told her "what happen to you yesterday?what did I do wrong?I took it really personal". The doc explained to me that she had too much pressure and she apologized for her behaviour. You should talk to them right away with a gentle manner and a calm voice. Do not allow them to use you as a punch bag.
I've found that 90% are really nice people its the other 10% that give them a bad name. Anytime I get unwarranted crap I write them up to the medical director. Sometimes it helps sometimes it doesn't.
First and foremost, it depends on where you work, and the age of the physician. Older docs may not have been brought up right, and you may still run into that attitude, but in the majority of places I've worked in, bad behavior by doctors toward nurses is simply not tolerated.
As an example, in the last hospital I worked for, if a doctor was rude to a nurse, the hospital administrator would personally call the physician and make him apologize to that nurse. One such episode involved a nurse calling a doctor and asking for something for pain for her patient. The doctor yelled at her "Can't you manage your patient's pain yourself?" The nurse cried, the charge nurse called the house supervisor, who picked up the phone and called the administrator. Result: the doctor was told to come see the patient and to apologize.
In the teaching hospitals I've worked for, residents are told they "must listen to the nurses", and any doc who doesn't is a fool. If the docs are misbehaving, we have every right to take it up with their supervisor. Residents have been fired from their programs for doing such things as throwing instruments at nurses in the OR, so they are being taught early in their careers to respect nurses.
A good charge nurse will pull a doc who misbehaves aside and confront them on the issue of abusive behavior and make it clear that this is not acceptable.
Finally, even though you are a new nurse, and don't like confrontations, you are going to have to learn to strengthen yourself and learn to be more assertive in your communication style. There is nothing at all wrong in speaking up for yourself, and any good nurse manager will support their nurses in this area. Sometimes, if you are going to advocate for your patient, you have to get real pushy, and you flat out have to tell the doctor "No". In time, as you develop confidence in your nursing skills, you will have no trouble voicing your opinion to the doctors.
Finally, I would suggest you take a Communications class on "Communicating with Impossible People" to help you gain some strategies for dealing with verbally aggressive people. If the doctor your dealing with is acting like a Sherman Tank, you definitely need to follow the following advice:
1. Stand your ground
2. Interrupt the attack by using the doctor's name in a firm voice at a fairly loud volume.
3. Allow for the doctor to vent and use your "active listening" skills that you learned in therapeutic communication classes.
4. Redirect the conversation to the bottom line. "I'll discuss this with you when you are ready to communicate in a more reasonable manner." Or "We both want what is best for this patient." Or "I'm here to help you and we are going to do something about it."
5. Leave the door open. "When you are ready to talk to me with respect, I'm willing to hear what you have to say."
A few don'ts:
1. Don't counterattack.
2. Don't defend, explain or justify.
3. Don't shut down.
GingerSnap.
Making the doc come in to apologize. A+++. I doesn't get much better than that.
My 50 cents. A while back I had this pts. personal doc riding my ass up one side and down the other on a very hectic night in the ER. Anyhow, he writes for discharge instructions if CBC is normal. Then he writes "call me with results of CBC".
So, I discharge the pt at 2300. Around 0330 I get caught up, so I call and wake his sorry ass up with the news his pt. was home in bed sleeping in NAD and proceeded to give him line by line the lab results.
The dude went ballistic. But ya know what? The guy goes out of his way to be nice to me now. I think he wants to be friends. (not a chance)
My philosophy in life. Don't get mad. Don't get even. Get one up.
And in the words of Forrest Gump "thats about all I got to say about that"
Spiffy, I wish I would have worked with you at any point in my career.
I have been "let go" after meetings with CEOs, Doctors and others , after stating my opinions about verbal abuse from MD (one), and even stated willingness to leave or transfer but my remarks were assured that would not happen even while the MD is stating, loudly "I want another nurse"
Later however (10 days, in which I should have been searching the joblist)I was approached asked to clear my locker and leave.
Even as I wished to speak my feelings, I was (almost) prevented.
And found myself without a job
Off course in a private setting this happens all too frequently.
I have written up an OB MD (was current CEO) for verbally abusing a pt, all the street words you have ever heard. She was not ? the "kind" of pt that hospital cared for, and being a drug user and having no PNC.
Guess where that write up went along with 2 others.
There are some nice private places out there, where staff care about each other. Do you have time to look?
I have worked Australia, and a few States here and have had many "words" with admin people, MDs, Human resources,
Thank God I still retain patience to give good care.
Now I say "you're welcome" in response to No ThankYou's voiced and hesitate to get a please. "Was that a please or are my ears not receiving again."
I'm tired of warring because Dr So and so brin gs the hospital more business than others. soooooooooooooooo......
I will work at Home Depot before being employed at a private institution.
Yes, I have refused direct orders because they were not ethical but issued for Md convenience and have sat patiently while a supervisor tries to tell me how Dr is always right .
My answer, when you want to fire me you know where to find me
Some of the doctors in the hospital I work in are very rude and arrogant.
As for me, since I am new in the nursing field, I keep quiet until the doctor spills out all his anger, and then I head to my incharge and write and incidence report, about the rudeness. It is looked at at the nursing management and approproate action is taken. :wink:
But honestly I wrote on report since 3 months and havent heard of the action taken. Here the privilage is always given to the doctors. And some of them treat nurses as if they are very backward, stupid people.
rude docs
I have seen my share of rude docs, and each situation is different. I have had things thrown at me. I have been sworn at. Sometimes I was caught so off guard. that I had no words to defend myself. I have found if you stay professional(as hard as that may be), and let them know that it was very unprofessional, or just don't hang your tail between your legs, than they will back off. It's sort of like a bully in grade school. When they figure out you will not tolerate it, it will stop. I have had some of the best working relationships come from confrontations in this area. On the other hand, if that doesn't work, I will write up a doctor in a formal incident report, and follow up with the powers that be. I think that this is very important that you do that. Noone deserves to be treated rudely. We are to be a team, not fighting against each other. i really hope this helps you. Keep your head up high, and be proud to be a "butt-wiper... I am!!!!!
well we cannot avoid these things from happenings, many factors are present, just always remeber, we have the CAP, which reminds us of DIGNITY.
Rude Doctors.
Dear Novice, when a doctor is rude to you, assess the situation: Did you provide the information he/she requested? (in other words, did you know stuff about the patient that you should have known, like were certain radiologic tests done yet, lab results.) Did you assist the doctor or did you try to avoid it? I know there are rude doctors, mostly the older ones, but I have seen many, many instances where the nurse WAS the problem. I have seen too many nurses that simply wanted the doctor to go away, instead of assisting them, which is our job. Know what is going on with your patient(s), know the critical lab results, know their xray results. There is more to managing a patient than just handing out meds and charting. Once a doctor gets to know you as a qualified nurse for his patients, you will see a difference in attitude. And sometimes people sound rude simply because they are very busy and pressured, esp. doctors. And by the way, grow a backbone or you will never make it.