Many like Thorwald, myself and others who grew up in the cult are as familiar with the Bible as with Berg's teachings, and have read through the Bible multiple times. You can try to portray it any way you want, but the fact of the matter is that for many of us who have distanced ourselves the Bible, we are very familiar with what it is we are rejecting, and it is not only Berg's interpretations and revelations. I'll certainly give you the benefit of the doubt that you've given thought to and come to your own conclusions about faith. Please try to do the same for others.

evanman, perhaps this might help you understand my reaction to your using Bible verses to bolster your arguments:

Consider the way you would feel if I were to use quotes from the Mo Letters or GNs to try to convince you of my opinion. Would you take to it kindly, even if the quote I used was morally sound?

Consider the way you would react if a Hindu began quoting from The Bhagavad Gita or the Vedas to convince you he was right? Would you appreciate being witnessed to about his belief in Brahman and being called 'foolish' or 'damned' for mocking his Gods?

Think about that for a minute.

Monger wrote:"I'll certainly give you the benefit of the doubt that you've given thought to and come to your own conclusions about faith. Please try to do the same for others."

Ain't that the truth?

My point was not that evanman shouldn't challenge my beliefs, but rather that it is misguided to think I don't know what the Bible is about (and that my opinions about it are therefore not valid) simply because I grew up in The Family. I have no problem challenging Christian beliefs, but my arguments do not include that the person doesn't know what they're talking about because they grew up with another belief. That's what I was trying to get at when mentioning coming to one's own conclusions about faith.

From what I know about hindu scriptures, nowhere are people that reject Krishna described as being fools for rejecting the gods of hinduism.

As far as being called "foolish" or "Damned" I've been called much worse. You just have to take it on the chin and turn the other cheek!

I can take on board people's reluctance to receive Biblical instruction, however if we want the knowledge of Jesus Christ we can only go to the Jewish Bible and Christian New Testament. I used to be the same.

Whatever we seek to teach, we cannot escape the fact that we need to study authorities on the subject.

Want to teach car mechanics we need to study the manuals. No point studying and reading about fly fishing!

I wouldn't trust a plumber to give me a heart by-pass operation.

Drivers have to respect the rules of the road, and what's more we take on board the instruction our driving instructors give us!

SGA's
Hey, sorry but I must not have been logged in when I made my last post. It showed up as Guest. I made an appeal to Thorwald looking for certain direction so as not to offend.
I joined the COG in '73 when I was newly 17. I had my very own experience with the Christ I know and then ended up in TF. I was there until close to the end of '78. You probably know what that means. My oldest child was born while in the family and I did all I could do to protect her. I was frequently in trouble as I took my bible and challanged the doctrine we were being taught. Basically I was thrown out of the family three times. I kept coming back because of my husband. Finally when we left it was really an escape. I could go on and on by what I mean by that, but won't. In short, finally I shut my mouth and became the whore they wanted me to be to keep from getting separated from my daughter so I could get her out of there. I am so sorry for the rest of you. I am not giving pity. I hate when people lay that crap on me. I am just genuinely sorry that it sucked so bad for you. I know a lot of the abuse you suffered. I suffered a lot of the same stuff as a kid but not in the name of God.
I am intensely interested in the second generation adults. I was born into Italian Catholic. I will keep my comments to myself to ward against possibly being offensive. I will stay with myself as I say that experience, with the Catholic school and all that came with it, made me an atheist. I was suicidal at 16 when a very real Jesus entered my hospital room, following the angels that preceded him. Obviously there is much more to it than that. I want to thank you for allowing me to feel free to say that. I do believe that you are pretty easy going and I can appreciate how you feel about "being preached at". Truthfully, I do believe in Christ and I am in angst over how poorly he is represented. Did you know that since the days of Christ on earth there has been a false christian movement? The tares and the wheat. I hope I didn't cross a line there. Thanks for reading.

Correct. Hinduism is all about religious tolerance, and as such, may not have been the best choice for my analogy, but my point still stands.

Actually, I'm not really sure you understood the point I was trying to make. It was not about you. It was about me. I was trying to get you to see what it was like being in my shoes.

Would you mind re-reading my comment and taking a moment to ponder what it was I was trying to get across to you? It's important to me.

Thank you.

Monger, I thought your point was well made and worth reiteration.

Dear Walker.

I understand what you were saying.

I know how I used to react to people who would quote the Bible to me. I know that many people don't like it.

I am glad that people ignored my dislike of hearing the Bible and remained steadfast in their convictions!

That's all good and well. But please don't project yourself onto people like me who have lived with, studied, and/or researched in depth the belief structure you promote and have come to the conclusion that there is nothing to be personally gained by the exclusive adoption of the same.

Your reaction to people quoting you the Bible was from a position of (relative) ignorance. My reaction is from a position of having been immersed in it since I learned to talk. "Not liking it" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

evanman, it's painfully obvious that you still don't understand where I'm coming from, so I won't press the issue further.

I hope you can get some pain releif. Ibufren is quite good.

There you go again, evanman. So insensitive. And yet you insist you're a true Christian.

I know staunch athiests who have better morals than that.

I apologise if my light hearted remarked was mal-received.

As for being immoral--you'll have to enlighten me.

That's not an apology. An apology would be "I'm sorry I made a light hearted comment and was insensitive about it." An apology requires an admission of wrong-doing. Your above apology is just like the "we're-sorry-you-feel-hurt" apology The Family keeps trying to pass off as genuine.

Did I say you were immoral? No, I didn't. I said I know atheists who have better morals.

You are certainly very angry.

I had not meant to hurt your feelings, for that I apologise.

I am happy that you have met Atheists that have better morals, I cannot claim to be perfect, that's for sure!

It is difficult to judge how a person is feeling through text.

I agree, it is.

I'm not angry, actually. It just gets a little frustrating when you're trying to get through to someone and they just don't get it. That's all.

Ewwww! Sorry mate, not my bit.

Re: How does one get over the guilt?
I am personally appalled by everything I've read about the FoG. The leaders, shephards, prophets and all the men and women who thought it was okay to abuse and hurt children and each other 'in the name and love of God' need a definate reality check. Only cowards and bullies would allow this. The thing that pisses me off the most is how they speak through God. 'God told us this and that. You are evil and have the devil in you for murmuring ... ' when it is obvious that God has said nothing of the sort. And you know why? GOD DOES NOT EXIST. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is some kind of higher being, but only cowardly people believe in something and take their word when there is no solid proof 'He' exists. I'm by no means a scientologist, I do not believe that I am ignorant enough to say that everything has a scientific basis and meaning. I do however believe that I am worldly enough (something else that was punished severely) to believe that if He does exist, he would be extremely angry that his name was used for a persons own vanity and selfishness. Because that is all it boiled down too - David Berg wanted men and women to worship HIM, not God. While men (i apologise for generalising - i know not all men are like this) are well known to be sex addicts (a scientific fact that dates back to the beginning of man kind; wanting to spread his seed ect. same thing can be seen with animals in the wild) they are NOT animals and so therefore cannot be excused for their actions. But what angers me is that women were known to abuse children too! I know i am going around in loops here but 'Queen' Maria, Berg and Mene? Their own grandchild? I am getting more angry as i write this. I do not have children of my own, being only 18, (and children as young as my sister were having children because contraception was a sin) but I could not imagine allowing this to happen to my children. Every man and woman who allowed and even condoned their children to be abused in a society that has brainwashed them into submission and not allowed them free will should be punished. I understand that alot of the parents in the cult tried their hardest and were upset for their children, but you could have left. Any parent that tries to make out they didn't know what was going on is LYING - they could see it in their everyday lifes. It would be hard to realise and accept that it happened, but it did. Any 1st generation member who knew what was happening in both 'The System' and and CoG are especially to blame for bringing their children up in that environment when they KNOW what is right and what is wrong! Don't get me wrong, I know that 'the System' has many flaws, paedohilia, abuse, rape ... but we try our hardest to prevent that. It will never stop, but condoning it doesn't help! only perverts and power hungry, cruel, low people would want to be in the CoG. It is NOT loving, it is NOT right. And they knew that! All the moving around and security measures prove that. They knew it was wrong.
I would like to give all the members who have managed to escape the beast of the belly a massive congratulations for being your own person. I will never understand what you have been through, but I hope that in time you will all adjust and be okay in yourselfs. I wish you all the best of luck.

Re: How does one get over the guilt?
how does anyone know who god is or what his views were on life and the way it should be lead. i think that each person should be able to live there life as an individual and if god was such a good person why would he include sex in his teachings. not only is that self gratification(which god did not justify) but with children is just completely incomprehensable. not only do these people need locking up they deserve to be strung up by their balls.sick is the only way i can describe this cult.degrading and abusive and sick in every way!!!!! children should be playing ball in the street and playing with dolls,not being forced to have sex with grown men. as if god intended for thast to happen. its just a big pile of brainwash crap so that sick mo can get his rocks off. hes no prophet,he's a peadophile. where i come from there is a difference!!!!!!!

Re: How does one get over the guilt?


I don't know if you meant to, but your comments seem biased towards men being the only abusers. Adult women in that group also abused children (both male and female). Some women even setup their daughters on dates with older men, facilitating the abuse. I would even argue that some of these men would not have had (or even tried to have) sex with these girls had not their mother's sent them to the man's bed. Doesn't justify their actions, of course, but my point remains: Men were not the only abusers.

Also, sex wasn't the only form of abuse.