Can anyone help source this quote??

Amerie phil · # **93066** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 11:39 am

I was wondering if anyone could help me source this quote. I thought it was from Augustine of Hippo's 'City of God', book IV.

"In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organised brigandage"

Can anyone tell me if this is right or wrong? I would soo appreciate it, and be very impressed at the same time. Rather desperate!

kennethamy · # **93067** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 11:47 am

Amerie;106644 wrote:

I was wondering if anyone could help me source this quote. I thought it was from Augustine of Hippo's 'City of God', book IV.

"In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organised brigandage"

Can anyone tell me if this is right or wrong? I would soo appreciate it, and be very impressed at the same time. Rather desperate!

"In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organised brigandage" - Bing

Amerie phil · # **93068** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 11:58 am

I did this myself and still cannot find a complete source. I got that it was from the City of God but cannot find a translation anywhere with a chapter and page number for this specific quote. That's all I really need. Thanks for trying though.

kennethamy · # **93069** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 12:03 pm

Amerie;106657 wrote:

I did this myself and still cannot find a complete source. I got that it was from the City of God but cannot find a translation anywhere with a chapter and page number for this specific quote. That's all I really need. Thanks for trying though.

But wouldn't the chapter and page number depend on what translation and what edition you were using? There are many of them. Doesn't it say it is chapter iv? Do you need more than that? I would just cite the book and chapter and author, and then say, "many editions". Or pick up some edition, and look up the page in that one. I don't understand the problem.

Amerie phil · # **93070** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 12:10 pm

I need to cite this in an essay and I am having trouble finding which book that this quote has come from - I believe it is in City of God going off a few different websites. If I can't find some sort of source for the quote then I won't be able to use it. So, I was wondering if anyone else was big on Augustine and could help me out a bit. I need a chapter and page reference at the very least, from any translation which actually has the quote in it. I have been looking for days and I'm totally clueless Sad

kennethamy · # **93071** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 12:25 pm

Amerie;106662 wrote:

I need to cite this in an essay and I am having trouble finding which book that this quote has come from - I believe it is in City of God going off a few different websites. If I can't find some sort of source for the quote then I won't be able to use it. So, I was wondering if anyone else was big on Augustine and could help me out a bit. I need a chapter and page reference at the very least, from any translation which actually has the quote in it. I have been looking for days and I'm totally clueless

But why don't you think it is TCOG? I don't personally know the quote, but all the web cites say that is what it is. So, pick up the book, look into the cited chapter, and there you are! Do you mean you cannot find the quote in the cited chapter in the translation you are looking into? Have all the references given the wrong information? Every translation should have the quote in it.

Later: Doesn't this translation have the quote in it?

NPNF1-02. St. Augustin's City of God and Christian Doctrine | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

josh0335 · # **93072** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 12:26 pm

The City of God - Google Books

Book 4, Chapter 4, page 101 according to this site. The translation is slightly different to what you've quoted. Hope that helps.

Emil · # **93073** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 12:37 pm

Often you can use Project Gutenberg for old texts. But Gutenberg doesn't have this book.

kennethamy · # **93074** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 12:39 pm

josh0335;106667 wrote:

The City of God - Google Books

Book 4, Chapter 4, page 101 according to this site. The translation is slightly different to what you've quoted. Hope that helps.

Yes. The translation there is, "Justice being taken away, what are kingdoms but great robberies"? But the idea is exactly the same, as in the other translation. Are you expected to use the very same translation? Just note that in the translation you are using, this is how the line from Augustine is translated.

Amerie phil · # **93075** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 12:58 pm

This translation would be a little bit different, yes same idea but still going to mess up my introduction a little bit. Like you say Kenneth, the quote will differ between translations. Thanks so much for that though Josh, it's the closest I have got for the moment, no doubt about that.

I have read that this translation is from a book by GG Walsh so that's my next stop if I get a preview somehow.

Thanks all soo much for your help, it's really appreciated. I have swine flu at the moment but have a deadline approaching so I have to try and get around my smudgy brain somehow!

kennethamy · # **93076** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 02:12 pm

Amerie;106677 wrote:

This translation would be a little bit different, yes same idea but still going to mess up my introduction a little bit. Like you say Kenneth, the quote will differ between translations. Thanks so much for that though Josh, it's the closest I have got for the moment, no doubt about that.

I have read that this translation is from a book by GG Walsh so that's my next stop if I get a preview somehow.

Thanks all soo much for your help, it's really appreciated. I have swine flu at the moment but have a deadline approaching so I have to try and get around my smudgy brain somehow!

Get better, and good luck.

Catchabula · # **93077** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 02:30 pm

"Remota itaque iustitia quid sunt regna nisi magna latrocinia' (Aug. civ. 4, 4). The original quote is of course in Migne's Patrologia Latina. Who needs translations? ;-)

Pangloss · # **93078** Sat 28 Nov, 2009 02:32 pm

Yes, it is Augustine's City of God, however I also remember the quotation being translated quite differently.

Amerie phil · # **93079** Sun 29 Nov, 2009 07:49 am

Catchabula;106688 wrote:

"Remota itaque iustitia quid sunt regna nisi magna latrocinia' (Aug. civ. 4, 4). The original quote is of course in Migne's Patrologia Latina. Who needs translations? ;-)

Wow you're good haha!