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@awoelt,

Well, i read various Book on Psychology, i myself came to the conclusion that Morals are something Human created himself. If you would educate someone to kill people, he will.
But most people educate their Kids with "Morals" so that they would not run around killing people, or at least not without feeling guilty.

Now to God, the reason i do not believe in him is that people say God created All, but who created God?
And if God is allmighty, why did he simply design Human Minds so that they will never think of "Evil"
And also they say God punishes those who have sinned, then i would once like to show "God" a childrens Hospital, show him all the Kids that will not leave in a live state, have all those young souls sinned to?
And also they say the devil makes people Evil, then why did God not destroy the devil?

---------------------
some say hitting a brick Wall with your Head kills you,
i say it kill time just as well.:brickwall:

@no1author,

no1author;89800 wrote:

Well, i read various Book on Psychology, i myself came to the conclusion that Morals are something Human created himself. If you would educate someone to kill people, he will.
But most people educate their Kids with "Morals" so that they would not run around killing people, or at least not without feeling guilty.

This is pure gold. And yes it was necessary to point out. Genius.

@awoelt,

I understand your view and respect your contribution to this forum, but first let me tell you my story. I went to church with my family like any normal kid, it made me a good kid and taught me my values. I agree that church is a good way to learn society's view of right and wrong. I grew up as most children do and when I was 11, I learned that Santa did not exist. I was shocked. Unfortunately, before i learned of Santa's non-existence, i made the connection that Santa was God giving gifts to the children he loved during Christmas. They were both expressed as noble and powerful men who did wonderful things, and as a young thinker I made them one person (i figured god is three people anyway right?). I know I sounds ridiculous, but my conclusion was logical if you think about it.My entire life the family and society who I loved and trusted had told me to behave because there was a powerful being out there who knew if I was being 'naughty or nice'.

When I realized that the most trusted people around you could lie to you like that I began to wonder if God was real. I also learned that true, loving parents will do anything to keep you happy and secure, and that's how it should be. They kept me happy my making me think a nice man out there had the heart to love so many children. They kept me secure by telling me that there was a place for me after death. I respect that. It's good to tell those you love that everything is alright and that you are safe, but what is heart-breaking is if they find out it isn't real.

I hope that you thought about what I said, and didn't just throw away my idea because it is different than yours. I know a lot of people who are too ignorant to understand me. I just want people to hear my logic and understand where i'm coming from.

P.S. I know I'm technically not christian anymore, but I do lead a moral life, regardless of heavenly rewards.

Thank you for listening, YoungSocrates

@no1author,

no1author;89800 wrote:

Well, i read various Book on Psychology, i myself came to the conclusion that Morals are something Human created himself. If you would educate someone to kill people, he will.
But most people educate their Kids with "Morals" so that they would not run around killing people, or at least not without feeling guilty.

Now to God, the reason i do not believe in him is that people say God created All, but who created God?
And if God is allmighty, why did he simply design Human Minds so that they will never think of "Evil"
And also they say God punishes those who have sinned, then i would once like to show "God" a childrens Hospital, show him all the Kids that will not leave in a live state, have all those young souls sinned to?
And also they say the devil makes people Evil, then why did God not destroy the devil?

---------------------
some say hitting a brick Wall with your Head kills you,
i say it kill time just as well.:brickwall:

Thank you for your interesting post, but I wanted to ask you why it is because you do not know what explains why God exists, you do not beileve that God exists? We may not know why the World exists, but we believe that it does exist, do we not?

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;97560 wrote:

We may not know why the World exists, but we believe that it does exist, do we not?

We can see the world. The question is not "why" it is "if". We know for a fact that the world exists because we see, hear, touch, smell, and even taste the world. We expierence it everyday, but god has never been seen, we've only been told he has.

---------- Post added 10-24-2009 at 11:40 AM ----------

no1author;89800 wrote:

Now to God, the reason i do not believe in him is that people say God created All, but who created God?

This is an important question to think about, because the answer is that God was "just there". But ask yourself, if God was "just there", then does this not mean it is possible for something to just be there without creation, and if so, doesn't this mean it is possible that humans were "just there"? If God doesn't need to be created, who says that we do?

@YoungSocrates,

YoungSocrates;99609 wrote:

We can see the world. The question is not "why" it is "if". We know for a fact that the world exists because we see, hear, touch, smell, and even taste the world. We expierence it everyday, but god has never been seen, we've only been told he has.

---------- Post added 10-24-2009 at 11:40 AM ----------

?

Yes, the world is visible, but God (if he exists) is invisible. But, of course, that doesn't mean that God does not exist, nor does it mean that God did not create the world.

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;99613 wrote:

Yes, the world is visible, but God (if he exists) is invisible. But, of course, that doesn't mean that God does not exist, nor does it mean that God did not create the world.

That is a good argument to his visibility, but your response to no1author's quote is still incorrect. You can't compare something that we know FOR A FACT exists, to something that a group of people believe exists. Faith is not necessarily reality, and it would be foolish to try and combine the two. nobody has ever really made contact with God in any way. The only way he has existed is through the church and the bible.

Also i think it's kind of funny how this topic went from "atheists can't be good people" to "god doesn't exist"

Kennethamy, there is no possible way i can change your mind about god's existence. You already strongly believe that he created you, so i see no point in trying to change that belief. You or any christian believing in god doesn't harm society, so it's okay to believe in him.:bigsmile:

@YoungSocrates,

YoungSocrates;99616 wrote:

That is a good argument to his visibility, but your response to no1author's quote is still incorrect. You can't compare something that we know FOR A FACT exists, to something that a group of people believe exists. Faith is not necessarily reality, and it would be foolish to try and combine the two. nobody has ever really made contact with God in any way. The only way he has existed is through the church and the bible.

Also i think it's kind of funny how this topic went from "atheists can't be good people" to "god doesn't exist"

Kennethamy, there is no possible way i can change your mind about god's existence. You already strongly believe that he created you, so i see no point in trying to change that belief. You or any christian believing in god doesn't harm society, so it's okay to believe in him.:bigsmile:

But all I have done is to point out that just because God is invisible, that does not mean that God does not exist. Electrons are invisible, and past events are invisible, but electrons and past events explain why it is that what is visible, exists. I haven't compared anything with anything else, as far as I can see.

You cannot have any idea whether or not I believe that God exists. Whether or not I do has nothing to do with your argument that because God (if he exists) is invisible, he does not exist. That argument is fallacious whether or not I believe in God.

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;99622 wrote:

But all I have done is to point out that just because God is invisible, that does not mean that God does not exist. Electrons are invisible, and past events are invisible, but electrons and past events explain why it is that what is visible, exists. I haven't compared anything with anything else, as far as I can see.

Well you must not be able to see very far if you do not realize how you earlier compared the world's existence to god's.

"...you do not beileve that God exists? We may not know why the World exists, but we believe that it does exist, do we not?"

That is a comparison. And I'm sorry if i offended you when i thought you believed in god when you defended god. If I assumed incorrectly, then i apologize.

@YoungSocrates,

YoungSocrates;99654 wrote:

Well you must not be able to see very far if you do not realize how you earlier compared the world's existence to god's.

"...you do not beileve that God exists? We may not know why the World exists, but we believe that it does exist, do we not?"

That is a comparison. And I'm sorry if i offended you when i thought you believed in god when you defended god. If I assumed incorrectly, then i apologize.

Yes, what I was saying was only that it is not a reason for believing that something does not exist that we do not know its cause. So, just because we do not know what causes God, it does not follow that God does not exist. And this involved no comparison.

No need for an apology. Philosophers often discuss positions they do not espouse. And even give argument for positions they do not espouse. Sometimes, that confuses people.

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